TIH 565: Adam Nevill on All The Fiends of Hell

00:00.00
Michael David Wilson
So today is the release day of All The Fiends of Hell. First off that is probably the most heavy metal title.

00:14.21
Michael David Wilson
You heard not just you but it is is there a more heavy metal title really for any book that is incredible and you know we we spoke before about how it started off as a screenplay but I understand if we want the real. Origin story. We need to go back to your childhood in the first time that you experienced war of the worlds.

00:41.20
Adam Nevill
Yup, yup I heard that when I was a child in New Zealand we were visiting some family friends and to keep my brother and I amused. They said oh listen to this and they put the. Jeff Wayne record on which I think had come out that year 77 or 78 and it was I was just I was terrified by the bits of Richard Burton the rates mesmerized but terrified and. Story happens that terrible june I was listening to it in June and you know I took that for a portent an omen a sign. Um, so I was frightened but I was captivated by it and then I was bought the record. And I listened to it so much and it was read to us I mean listen to a radio dramatization as well and then I've read it myself and I still read it every few years. Um.

01:50.98
Adam Nevill
And it was like I guess it was my first encounter with like cosmic horror so you know as a child I'd had childish childlike fears of gravity reversing. And would be overawed at times looking at this night sky and trying to fathom that with like a 4 our-year-old brain um and constantly clamoring for reassurance for my parents. Um, but that listening to war of the worlds it. It made the whole idea of you know Armageddon or an apocalypse seem very vivid and credible. My imagination as a child. So I think that kind of impact that a story has on you at that time. It's going to come out in some form later so always been interested in the kind of alien invasion. Um, and it was the right time the last few years with everything going on a thing with a pandemic and um the war in Europe these kind of apockal monumental events that threaten.

03:27.86
Adam Nevill
Civilization with collapse everything changes anything can happen. All bets are off. You know it's not a feeling I particularly wanted to experience again. But um, certainly did for a couple of years

03:46.10
Adam Nevill
And I think this book is partly a response to that. Um, and also just the sheer. Um.

03:57.92
Adam Nevill
Euphoria I think of imaginatively investing yourself into situations which is one of the things I love when I read more of the worlds is I or what would I do? How would I survive where would I hide. Um and you you kind of. You imagine yourself in the role of characters in those situations. Um the kind of unlimited freedom combined with I guess intense anxiety and Jeopardy all of the time.

04:35.66
Adam Nevill
And another idea that that's interested me for years is is just dereliction where everything kind of mares Celeste situation. Everything is as it was when something happened and you're left. To witness it and explore it and there's no one else around and nothing is nothing is barred to you so the empty village at the beginning was me kind of exploring that that interest. You can go into everything and see everything and something isn't right, but it remains enigmatic. Um, so yeah, it was ah in some ways it was a lot of fun to write and it's it's quite different to my other novels in that.

05:30.20
Adam Nevill
Ah, kind of feel this one was almost all pure story and character because it was ah ah an event. It didn't that didn't require lots of research like my other books did.

05:47.35
Adam Nevill
It was very much a story happening in the now um to a handful of characters.

05:58.64
Adam Nevill
So yeah, something something something different and and ah a change of theme and ideas from the last 3 books.

06:08.23
Bob Pastorella
Yeah I think there's something primal in that being alone and that you know we we take it for granted that there's always going to be other people and so we talk about you know. Like what's What's our greatest fears. You know our greatest fears you know when we we don't want to die we we feared you know things that we don't know but being alone is is to me I feel like that's very primal and that's because we spend a lot of our our time alone. But are we truly alone you know and then when there's no one else that you can see or hear that to me that that's that could that that's devastating to know that that you could be.

07:01.35
Bob Pastorella
The only one left that would be right.

07:01.83
Adam Nevill
And your whole perception changes your your mind will turn on itself almost immediately and your thoughts just boom. So when you're I think.

07:17.20
Adam Nevill
Agree with you Bob and when you when you're approaching that in a story you have to really kind of get inside the experience imaginatively I think to make it credible which.

07:25.23
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, and you did. There's there's a sense of alienness and not not that kind yet. But at the beginning of the story. it's it's there's just very very scary. You know. Feeling and it's I think it's a universal fear I mean we've seen it. There's a reason why the war of the worlds is being adapted. So so many times not just because it's it's in public domain and and all that but because the story is a universal story and it's a story about us and. And how alone we are and it's you know it's it's just a classic story and when you mentioned that that was a first and first time I'd even put the 2 to together you know? um. Because it it stands it stands on its own outside of outside of any other type of ah influences it's that I was like oh yeah, it is is kind of world of worlds I never put it together.

08:35.59
Adam Nevill
Yeah I mean War of the worlds is what I love about the beginning of war of the worlds is that kind of apprehension. It's both anxiety and excitement.

08:53.79
Adam Nevill
Something something has landed something is intruded. Um, which is ah which is a cause of concern but also great excitement and then all the worlds becomes this.. It's this incredible like retreat of refugees. Through a devastated landscape. It's a really harrowing book. There are some scenes in that that you know they really are ah disturbing I think mine was I wanted more the the idea of very few people.

09:29.95
Adam Nevill
And the only though those that remained were all completely clueless or incapable but physically and mentally incapable Only the incapable were left behind.

09:38.89
Bob Pastorella
Right.

09:47.25
Adam Nevill
Which creates ah um, a unique set of challenges to what degree if you're able bodied. Are you responsible.

10:06.16
Adam Nevill
Um, so that I guess the question was as well was how good are you? How good was the character. He didn't think he was good. And't really been responsible for anything. Um, you know how does someone meet that challenge and so often I think alien invasion it it. There's stories about human agency. How mankind rallies. And and how our ingenuity and resourcefulness and um, kind of teamwork and so forth. We. We put up an opposition to something. Inexplicable. That's invaded the earth but I thought what was for me. What was more interesting was you know it's a done Dale right? from day one. There is no opposition. There is no help coming and.

11:14.88
Adam Nevill
Probably no means of defeating what's here. It's It's a question of both survival and how you behave um and also making it feel almost like a religious event.

11:34.35
Adam Nevill
Done if you picked up on that.

11:35.67
Michael David Wilson
Oh yeah, yeah, and there were I mean I even wrote in my kind of notes about this that in in many ways This has been your most biblical book I mean certainly.

11:50.93
Michael David Wilson
Very much of the revelation school of the bible this nightmarish vision but this is kind of hell on earth and I mean when I first started reading it because I tried to go into things as cold as possible.

12:07.46
Michael David Wilson
So I hadn't read any of the blurb I didn't notice. It was a novel of Alien Horror and so I mean given the title line I know probably the antagonists are are literally coming from hell as it were and.

12:26.50
Michael David Wilson
It reminded me particularly at the start of the lengths of Twenty eight days later and Silent Hill just this absolute disquietingness this almost lynchian twin peaks beginning where something is just off and this. Isolation and I knew something absolutely awful was coming but I didn't know what it was and you're just building this dread throughout.

12:58.20
Adam Nevill
Great. Well, that's ah, that's the effect that that was intended and desired.

13:08.18
Bob Pastorella
And it's ah it's a master class of building dread I mean it's it you you you seriously ramp it up with each and and here's the thing it's It's not like I need I need to put more dread in here indeed these these events happen organically.

13:25.10
Bob Pastorella
And it just it's It's a testament to good storytelling because it's like I said it's a masterclass in dread. It just ramps up until it's almost at a fever pitch and loved it.

13:39.82
Adam Nevill
Oh Thank you very much.. It's very kind and well it can be really simple things. The more I thought about it like um, it's not just the emptiness but you know things that you associate With. Kind of routine and order and the rules and regulations that kind of marshal us just sort of traffic lights changing and you I think even in that Situation. You would still stop on on red.

14:14.38
Adam Nevill
Um, well, that's good to hear there's there's one on the on the biblical thing I just pop away to my record collection over here rather than going to get a book moment.

14:27.42
Bob Pastorella
All right gonna get gonna get the music in the horror.

14:32.36
Adam Nevill
Um, yeah, it's it's it's too late to put music on we go. That's it.

14:47.85
Adam Nevill
Yeah, this this was a painting that my dad had lots of books on art and I used to love these paintings by um, bruegel and bosh and this is black Sabbath's greatest hits which you.

15:05.56
Adam Nevill
You you may be familiar with um, but depicted and I so look at the painting in this book and it was again something when I was younger. There's kind of a ah, some sort of invasion in progress and this you know. Light has changed the sky has changed There's people on Gibbetsz there's fires in the background There's these sort of things appearing and people being towed around on wagons and fed into things and you know blow my mind when I was a kid.

15:43.48
Adam Nevill
Um, so it was it was those it was those kind of paintings that really gave me a kind of aesthetic to to aim for um and just something really as simple as.

16:00.50
Adam Nevill
Changes in light was like a kind of motif through the book. But um, yeah, well I'm I'm glad you guys I'm glad you guys liked it? Um, and I I would have loved to seen it as a film.

16:19.43
Adam Nevill
Or a Tv series.

16:19.99
Michael David Wilson
Ah, oh yeah, yeah I hope that that can come to fruition.

16:29.70
Adam Nevill
There's always a chance but I'm not counting my chickens.

16:36.58
Bob Pastorella
Um, speaking of which I mean ah the the character Bob I know the actors australian yeah I know the actor

16:46.74
Bob Pastorella
I'm a mention is australian but the guy who came to mind as soon as he started talking was John Jared from Wolf Creek and he because just the the cadence and delivery of of you know his his his lines. I could just imagine him just you know adapting you know a little bit more of a british accent and and just delivering these lines and it's just that that I guess that cocky demeanor you know I was like yeah that would that would be really good casting. You know.

17:25.36
Adam Nevill
Yeah I haven't seen Wolf Creek in a while so sort of cinema when it came out but um, yeah I can see that.

17:29.37
Bob Pastorella
He has that kind of a that kind of cocky demeanor in the film and I'm I'm sure his range extends out beyond that but still, you know that's that's that was who. Come to mind immediately and I was like well he's not even he's not even British you know he's he's Australian actor but you know movie magic can happen. You know.

17:56.12
Adam Nevill
Um, and it it would be just your luck that he he would be the the first capable adult you'd come across.

18:07.11
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah, and like so many of these apocalyptic scenarios. You know you meet Bob and you soon find out that you know that the real frat or the more immediate fret is. You know one one of the so-called survivors.

18:26.30
Adam Nevill
Um, yeah, well because I think you know other people would just make it more difficult other people would make terrible situations more difficult I mean the opposite could be true.

18:43.85
Adam Nevill
And you do hear these stories of saviors and Angels and Heroes but I think it's just as likely. Um, being as familiar with my own species as I am.

19:02.25
Adam Nevill
That people could present all kinds of problems. You'd rather be without very quickly.

19:11.85
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, and I was interested to hear that of course you wrote the screenplay is before covid but the way that you know Cole wakes up and he wakes up from this fever. It felt like this has come straight out of covid and it's like you know, imagining what would it be like if not only did you get covid but then by the time you're better again. You walk into this, you walk into effectively hell.

19:44.97
Adam Nevill
Yeah, well that the the Novella and short story were pre covered I think the screenplay I was I was writing it in part through 2020 but because I Wanted. Um, only the kind of incapable and invalided remaining but that character had to be able-bodied and not suffering from Dementia. Um.

20:22.10
Adam Nevill
The flu is a really handy device but you know maybe I was on to something.

20:27.30
Michael David Wilson
Right? And I think in some ways I mean the protagonist Carl he kind of needs this you might be an odd thing to say but you know. Beforehand I mean he's just had a divorce there have been struggles in terms of like wanting children or not having children and you know this gives him a purpose he was at his lowest point. And then you know in some cruel twist of fate. He kind of becomes a father figure to these 2 children that he discovers and then has to protect.

21:12.67
Adam Nevill
Yeah, it's it's it's something that I think I've I've I've returned to in in books something I look to have to start with in the in the ritual and I think it's this idea of you know. Men like us post-historical men who haven't fought in wars or dealt with um, massive depressions or you know. Global catastrophe conflicts and so forth I mean our father's generations didn't either. But how how would we fare if we were put into one of these historical situations. That was about survival. Um, and interestingly I often think about ah the Ukraine war because they've had to summon so many civilian soldiers from ordinary walks of life that have ended up. On this terrible front line bombarded with artillery and drones and missiles I mean it's something like 60% of the casualties I think are from artillery It's like the first world war so you know one day you're a.

22:44.45
Adam Nevill
You a school teacher or an accountant or I don't know a software developer and then a few weeks training and you're in a foxhole in a freezing wood you you've gone from you your back in History. Um, in a very short period of time events have external events. You've no control over have overwhelmed your country and your life and your force to.

23:22.28
Adam Nevill
React and behave in a different way. So it's it's It's a kind of conflict I find very interesting um in terms of a story.

23:37.40
Adam Nevill
And I think there's always there's always a part of me that kind of not as exactly expecting to put in the same situation but wouldn't rule it out the way the world is going. Um.

23:53.60
Adam Nevill
And also it's more interesting for me, kind of dramatically if the person doesn't have any special skills or any military experience or any special weapons so is the kind of last person you'd want on your team.. It's very much a very ordinary. Person preoccupied with contemporary Problems. We can all recognize um and then suddenly has to fend for himself and other people.

24:31.74
Adam Nevill
He encounters along the way. Um, do you sink or swim. Do you do you become the best you can be um so I think it's as it's It's a story.

24:50.42
Adam Nevill
About that as much as anything else. How how good are you when it's put to the test.

25:01.44
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, and and ink is true that a lot of us particularly the last couple of generations we've become very comfortable because we haven't had to face these challenges. But I mean as this is something to you. Think about a lot I mean in terms of your own life have you deliberately cultivated any skills that would help in some sort of situation like this I mean I'm wondering how far your musings. Have taken you because I mean it. It's something I consider as well and if we're spending a lot of our times in front of a computer or that's not going to translate to any sort of discernible survival skill. If. It's all taken away from us there you go. Ah.

25:56.29
Adam Nevill
Unless you're a drone operator think those guys I think have the best job don't they in the ah the current conflict over there. Um.

26:05.77
Michael David Wilson
Right.

26:12.00
Adam Nevill
The interesting the moment. The only time I felt a real chill almost like ah like my back was covered in frost was it was in April of 2020. So the pandemic had started and we were watching these. Horrendous news reports from New York I think it was China and and italy and we knew it was coming you know and and patient zeros were starting to pop up. In fact. Even though we were we we had the lowest infection rate we actually had patient zero that was a family that came back from skiing holiday in italy but that's quickly contained but um in the April so it was coming closer but things were still relatively normal and under control. And then it was in I just wandered up to the local supermarket one day in April and we'd not had any problems with supply of food essentials. The supermarkets were open. The supermarkets were full and I just went up one morning pick up a couple of things and the supermarket was empty and there was a very kind of shell-shocked assistant standing behind the till and I just said to the kashir what happened and she said like.

27:46.48
Adam Nevill
People showed up like they were waiting when we got here people were driving camper vans into supermarkets a night filling trolleys and it's the first time I thought it was in that April you know is that where we are already like. People are stockpiling. You know that's right on the edge of of human behavior that's completely unacceptable like selfishness is taking over now and we're we're inundated with this sort of myth. Well the Don Kirk spirit Blitz spirit and we're all in it together and I thought very quickly that can become something else when food and resources are at stake that was the only time in the pandemic that I actually felt some concern. And then within you know within a few days a week or so the shelves were half full and things calmed down and retailers were imposing limits on how much you could take but you know that only took a few weeks before people were. Driving trucks to supermarkets and buying all the pasta panic buying. So the panic kicked in pretty quickly. But no I mean I'm not any kind of survivalist or what have you.

29:17.30
Adam Nevill
I Think since since I've lived here and I do so much kayaking on the sea I mean that teaches you you acquire a kind of competency. Um for your own safety and handling. Different conditions and looking out for a group of paddlers because we're always paddle in groups. So you you acquire a kind of compensate competency. The other thing that I I noticed it it did teach me um, is a greater tolerance for discomfort.

29:54.46
Adam Nevill
Because we're ah we're always wet and we're in wind and there can be swell and you know the first year you do it. You're like oh this is horrible I don't know if I'm going to do this again sitting in a.

30:09.40
Adam Nevill
In wet shorts for hours in ah in a boat with the wind hitting you and your feet wet and but actually it it stopped bothering me and I thought you know it can flip the other way you can quickly become ah inured to discomfort.

30:27.93
Adam Nevill
And when you have to when you have to be when you're two miles out at sea or you're in swell or you've got to use support strokes. What have you? you can become competent in ways that you didn't think you could you can underestimate yourself. Um, you you can become better I guess than you than you thought you were um in extreme situations. So yeah I've spent a lot of time outdoors on the sea and a lot of time walking whether that would. Give me any advantage in a catastrophe. Um I don't know how.

31:16.40
Bob Pastorella
You You haven't gone full gone full on prepper yet then ah.

31:22.10
Adam Nevill
Now now now I've got good camping gear. Um.

31:30.75
Michael David Wilson
Like I've noticed since the pandemic. Yeah more people growing their own food and vegetables and like trying to be more so I guess light selfsufficient. So I do wonder.

31:50.60
Michael David Wilson
If we're going to see more of that come into play as well. Um, because you're right I remember like I think it was and at the end of February the start of March in London and the midlands like people just. Panic buying as you say I remember there was a point where it was difficult to get toilet roll because just as soon as some came into stock people would get as much as possible and you know you you talk to people and he'd asked like what why you.

32:27.77
Michael David Wilson
Why you buying so much toilet roll is you okay is your stomach. Okay, what's going on here but you know often the answer was they're panic buying because other people are panic buying. So it's this weird herd mentality.

32:45.32
Michael David Wilson
So people didn't agree with it but because other people were doing it. They're doing it as a response to it because they don't want to get left behind and it is absolutely ludicrous.

32:52.99
Adam Nevill
Yeah, well, it's the the supermarket I was talking to the cashier said they they weren't from. They weren't from round here because you know they'd recognize all the all the local shoppers and I thought that's interesting people coming from.

33:11.82
Adam Nevill
Another area to this one. They've emptied the supermarkets elsewhere and the the story that came to mind was the road.

33:20.11
Michael David Wilson
Oh yeah.

33:25.79
Bob Pastorella
You know it's crazy because next week in any us. Um, we're having a big eclipse and the media and now it's it's like almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy because some of the media outlets are saying that. Ah, you know people are stalking up on supplies due to the eclipse I'm not really saying why it it does get mentioned but there there are eclipse chasers people who go all over the country to watch these events. And they do end up. You know, staying in these cities and things where you're going to be in the path of totality or close of the path of totality of the eclipse and they they they buy you know gas and toilet paper and food and things like that. And so I I am 5 hours away from totality and my mom is like it's all over the news. We're going to have to go get some gas in the cars. Something's going on with the eclipse I'm like did you pay attention to the news article mom.

34:30.54
Bob Pastorella
Did you did you listen? Why is because of the eclipse chasers and she goes what what is that who? what? what did they do? Well, they just want to watch the eclipse they want to watch 4 minutes of total darkness during the day big deal. You know, but I mean it it is it is own the media and so we've kind of It's it's it's turned around as usual.

34:51.60
Adam Nevill
Yeah, well ideas are viruses and they they spread faster than the biological viruses. You know word gets out something things. Something's running low.

34:56.27
Bob Pastorella
So oh yeah.

35:09.98
Adam Nevill
Every man for himself can can kick kick in pretty quickly. Although the smart people I think bought pasta because a reading recently that can last even thousands of years they found some in the valley of the kings.

35:29.46
Adam Nevill
And cooked it like an egyptian um ancient Egyptian version of pasta and it was edible.

35:37.42
Bob Pastorella
Wow, that's something that's amazing thousands of years that's crazy.

35:44.65
Adam Nevill
There's there are some things that just last outs I think is another one porridge outs. So if you're going to stock up Porridge outs and pasta.

35:55.40
Bob Pastorella
There you go.

35:57.67
Michael David Wilson
Yeah I think here in Japan. It would be rice that you'd probably get and I mean in general that there is so much rice in Japan that you can go down to the supermarket and you could buy. Ah, Twenty Kilogram bag of rice if you can carry it back then you know you can buy it out so that'd be fairly efficient panic buying just just 1 item I mean if if you get yeah.

36:28.10
Adam Nevill
Get a few and then you can use them as sandbags.

36:34.12
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, then then you get to eat your rice and you get to have a good workout. It's a few bags of rice. But I mean it as I said before this is so to a point concerned with parenting this book.

36:53.60
Michael David Wilson
And I'm wondering how has your daughter getting older changed you and changed your parenting and changed you as a person. Yeah, maybe a bit too big for past two a am but.

37:03.78
Adam Nevill
Oh it's a big question. Oh.

37:13.50
Michael David Wilson
We go in for it.

37:13.29
Adam Nevill
Um, I think the in relation to this story. Um, the the way that that's changed me becoming a parent and it's I guess in a condensed version. It's the same as in this story It obviously makes you responsible in a way that you've never been responsible before because you're responsible, um, for someone other than yourself that you care about more than yourself. Um, and I think that's a really good thing that level of responsibility um to have that as an adult and I I would go as far as to say that that was something that was missing for me until I became a parent.

38:10.81
Adam Nevill
And although you know having kids and kids are tremendous sources of anxiety and fear and paranoia for their safety that that level of responsibility if you embrace it is um. It's only a good thing and it makes you ah it makes you a better person. So I think that's something that I did write about somebody that was who had you know, no experience with children even something of an aversion to them was put in a. Position where he became more or less a surrogate parent. Um for somebody else's kids for strangers. Um, so his initial impulse or temptation. Was just to run away from that complication and responsibility. Um, who'd want to get saddled with that. But there was something better in him. I Think that overrode those selfish instincts and that's one of the things one of the things that occurs when you become a parent is that um that responsibility if you take it seriously I think it does make you a.

39:41.32
Adam Nevill
A better person and you you make a better contribution. Um.

39:48.37
Adam Nevill
I mean I think particularly my generation we were I can't ever remember in the in the 80 s or even into the 90 s if there was ever any encouragement for anyone to have children. I mean it was all about careers. It was all about your individual development but it was all about me, you know and breaking out of this kind of traditional mold. Um. Families were almost seen as you know family was almost seen as an impediment. It wouldn't be the same for every every country and culture but certainly in the west at certain times. There was an emphasis on that. Um, so I you know. I became a parent didn't think I would and I'm quite an old dad. But um, the benefits are enormous and I think chiefly um. As explored in the story is this is this sense of responsibility. Um and prioritizing prioritizing somebody other than yourself.

41:20.69
Adam Nevill
Against all the odds. Yeah.

41:21.30
Michael David Wilson
Ah, yeah.

41:24.94
Adam Nevill
Sorry my throat was dried out I've been vaping for 18 hours

41:25.17
Michael David Wilson
Yeah I no well I mean we've been well vaping for 18 talking for getting on 3 hours is's gonna do it. It's go of take its toll just being up for What must be what 20 hours now so this is quite quite. Yeah quite the session. But yeah there you go? yeah.

41:49.83
Adam Nevill
It's getting on for that. Yeah, why it's a special occasion I only speak to this his horror every 4 years.

42:00.59
Michael David Wilson
Well, it wasn't a deliberate pattern. But yeah.

42:02.50
Bob Pastorella
But for him.

42:02.98
Adam Nevill
I was I was thinking what Bob said before was a great title for a horror story the path to totality. What was it there is it totality where you get the the best effects of the.

42:11.55
Michael David Wilson
Oh yeah.

42:14.50
Bob Pastorella
Ah, yeah.

42:20.46
Adam Nevill
Is it a solar or lunar eclipse.

42:22.51
Bob Pastorella
It's ah it's gonna be a solar and and they yeah my area is gonna get probably around 85% so but um, what what? I didn't know. Is that the areas that will get 100 % that you can actually view the eclipse without any type of protection because the sun will be completely covered this particular year due to. Disturbances and things in the atmosphere and the actual relationship between earth the moon and the sun is going to be quite spectacular because of the the solar activity around it the corona and such that we won't see another one like this. What Nasa's saying for 20 years so this particular one is drawing a lot of attention and it's rare that it passes over so much of of the us so much of the central us. So you know and people 5 hours away from me in Austin. We'll we'll have you know I think it's it's like they're gonna be pretty close to 100 % whereas in my area. It's gonna be There's saying anywhere from eighty to ninety. It's gonna get dark during the day you know, um and it's gonna get real dark for about 4 minutes

43:43.71
Adam Nevill
You know.

43:45.96
Bob Pastorella
And then you know so the whole thing lasts maybe about 40 minutes or so we had one a couple years ago and ah and matter. Of fact, we had we actually had ah a partial one last year that was that made the sky look funny for a little while you know, but then we had a really good one. Um, but this is the the most significant one that I that I've had in my lifetime and I'm I'm a be 57 in June so but yeah, the path of totality that would be that's ah um, um, some planning steeds and in and Adam's mind about future.

44:15.44
Adam Nevill
This and it sounds to me this one.

44:23.27
Bob Pastorella
Future Apocalyptic novels here we go.

44:25.28
Adam Nevill
Well this one this one the big one that's coming at you to me sounds like the perfect pretext for a fulls scale alien invasion I think your mum's onto something this just doesn't sound right? 4 minutes of total darkness and the world will be different.

44:44.51
Adam Nevill
And the lichens back on.

44:45.26
Bob Pastorella
Never yeah, yeah, pretty much you know and it it reminds me because you you just started off. You know as as.

44:48.00
Michael David Wilson
I Mean that this kind of the tagline right there.

45:02.34
Bob Pastorella
You know, basically a short story in Novella turned into a screenplay you have this really really really enviable ability to describe something without describing it and and creating and confusing Nightmarish imagery in your mind with with. Especially dealing with the aliens in this in this novel and and you I didn't know it was a screenplay before this did you have to give like a like a more concrete description in the screenplay or was that. More or less left to you know Director producer set designer interpretation.

45:46.24
Adam Nevill
Um, no you you you have to put it in you have to give the I guess the blueprint for the director so in the screenplay it had to be very succinct and very precise.

45:52.12
Bob Pastorella
Right.

46:01.20
Bob Pastorella
Guess and thought yeah.

46:03.77
Adam Nevill
My big weakness with writing screenplays is there would be too much description. Big blocks of text and I would have to just winnow that down to a couple of lines which again is a good discipline It's a good practice. Um, so I would suggest the um the alien element but obviously in the novel I had more space more than 110 pages but I still tried to keep it kind of suggestive and scant.

46:41.80
Adam Nevill
Um, and obviously it's kind of what of you to say about the description and I I think about them and for the horrors in this book I I always tried to keep them.

47:00.76
Adam Nevill
Slightly enigmatic so they suggest lots of recognizable things I don't only give too many spoilers away but they never become too defined. Always they always have to remain ah somewhat.

47:18.71
Adam Nevill
Indistinct and you would catch more. You would see more in certain kinds of light. Um and I wanted them to you know they're very multisensory. There's a sound. There's a smell. Um.

47:25.32
Bob Pastorella
Yes.

47:36.27
Adam Nevill
The imagery of how they move. Um I even studied kind of how some animals moved. Um so they were the most enjoyable bit about the whole book.

47:55.64
Adam Nevill
The horrors and also when they get people.

47:56.89
Bob Pastorella
Yes, yes, they they are truly horrors. That's you know and that's it's like you want as as a you know because as a writer when I read I can't help but to try to analyze something. And it was so it was it was almost.. It was very easy for me just to kind of Forego that and go you know what? I'm just going with the flow here because I want whatever imagery goes into my mind and because my mind is going to conjure up. The worst thing I can possibly think of you know. And you used these very specific very very you know, unique words to describe this. You know this this these these horrors and I've never seen anything like that read anything like that. And then when you said it was a screenplay it was like oh he had to have put it in like ah ah a a I'm surely he had to put in like you know a concrete definition of what these things look like and have to winn of that down that was man that's that's some good stuff. There.

49:12.69
Adam Nevill
Oh thank you? That's an interesting point you made though because I always know with usually with all my books there will be something that will divide readers and in the um, the people who looked at the screenplay the meetings I had.

49:30.79
Adam Nevill
I Could see that division already forming because usually if you um if I think of Alien Invasion Stories Novels I've read films I've seen or what have you? There's often an emphasis on. The civilization. The Alien civilization. Its its its form its structure its purpose its intent the kind of mythology behind it. Um. And there'll be some people that would that would want that that would demand that or you can keep it um, more enigmatic and suggestive which I think is is kind of more love Craftian in a way.

50:18.46
Bob Pastorella
Who who.

50:19.98
Adam Nevill
It's almost beyond your comprehension. You can't fully grasp it. Um, you can you can perceive it in part. So.

50:23.55
Bob Pastorella
Right.

50:32.93
Adam Nevill
A lot of it will be down to the reception of the book I think down to the taste of individual readers and I know in the in the the film industry you know I think it's quite conservative when you think of the amount of money that's involved in making a film. And the sort of audiences that filmmakers need to make a film a success. The I think the emphasis is to is to err on the side of caution and leave nothing to chance. Um, the only the only kind of.

51:12.10
Adam Nevill
Example I can think of that really broke the mold and was all the better for it was a quiet place. Um, and you only really saw I think there's 1 scene where there's some newsplay pick.

51:20.53
Bob Pastorella
And.

51:31.30
Adam Nevill
Clippings on a corkboard that mentions an asteroid um because usually you get you know you get a lot of detail and you get a lot of information and you know that that can be really. That can be really Interesting. Um.

51:56.39
Adam Nevill
Um, but even the you know the alien Ridley Scotts alien if if you you really want to know where these things came from and how they were produced and. You know you want the kind of origin story to them. But if that's kept back from you. It's just hinted at or suggested I to my taste. That's more powerful. The kind of enigmatic root.

52:32.60
Adam Nevill
Um, but not so attractive to big big studios. It aims.

52:38.83
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like a dead space with the the marker and and all of that it's you have you have a mythology.. There's a mythology there but not going into it that. That's that's pretty much the definition of Cosmic right? there you know? and so yeah I think we see a little bit of that with the horrors with the the architecture. Especially what they what they do with with the dead you know? and so yeah, and so.

53:13.29
Adam Nevill
Yeah.

53:17.31
Bob Pastorella
Not to y'all need to read the book so we can quit spo on it.

53:24.90
Adam Nevill
That's a suggestion of the culture that's been imported. Yeah.

53:26.23
Bob Pastorella
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

53:30.38
Michael David Wilson
And there's always that dilemma with horror creators. You know whether to or whether not to show the monster and then if you do how much of the monster to actually reveal because as we've said.

53:44.70
Adam Nevill
Move.

53:50.28
Michael David Wilson
I Mean there's a great divide in terms of horror audiences. There are those who absolutely want to see the monster. There are those who once you show it, You remove some of its power and I actually link in the film adaptation of the ritual.

54:02.46
Adam Nevill
Are or.

54:09.80
Michael David Wilson
That was handled very very well because you don't see the monster for a very long time and then when you do like the payoff is remarkable and they got the monster right? which you know that.

54:11.16
Adam Nevill
The air.

54:25.52
Adam Nevill
Yeah, it it's.

54:29.37
Michael David Wilson
It's a big risk because if you get it wrong. It can spoil the entire movie.

54:32.12
Adam Nevill
Yeah, now it's sort of it's a good example. It's it's it's all about timing and execution and that was in very capable hands. Um, because I remember when. Towards the end of the process when there was the director's script David had come on and he and Joe had produced the director's script and I remember just sort of saying you know that's a big reveal but between I think Keith Thompson who designed. God and and Joe's writing and particularly David's directing it was it was when I saw it at the cast and crew screening. Um.

55:28.43
Adam Nevill
I was I was so impressed with what they'd done and the scene where the Jotan kind of rears up on its hind legs and you see the sky behind it I thought it was just genius actually got a bit of bit of cosmic awe. And so but that was in the right hands you know, really really talented people who knew exactly how to present it at the right time. It's not easy. I mean there are there are shows I can think of a couple that. They almost go too far with enigma where they keep starting storylines they almost get addicted to creating this kind of neverther ending mystery do you remember lost is kind of the lost formula and it's sort of addictive.

56:20.42
Michael David Wilson
I Do yeah.

56:24.35
Adam Nevill
Until it wasn't until it it you know until it became almost tiresome or it was crossing the line into bewilderment and confusion I thought that um ah, recent series. There's been 2 series I think it's called now. You seen it just make sure I've got the right title and the first series it's on Sky Atlantic is really good from now my memories just.

56:45.40
Michael David Wilson
And I have not seen now.

56:52.51
Bob Pastorella
From. I was thinking of other 1 word titles that had 2 seasons and that's the only one I could come up with.

57:02.84
Adam Nevill
Yeah, now where did I get now from? um yeah from the first one is terrific and I thought the way that it deals with the mystery. The enigma is um is really powerful. It's really quite an affecting.

57:22.84
Adam Nevill
Show I'm so looking forward to the second series. But the second series to my taste went a bit down the sort of last multiple rabbit holes where nothing's ever going to be properly resolved. Or not credibly resolved. Um so you know it is a balance.

57:49.93
Michael David Wilson
I have not seen from but it sounds like that's a strong recommendation for season 1 and then you know cap it at that. Yeah yeah.

57:56.00
Adam Nevill
Um, yeah, what watch a series and then manage your expectations for series. 2

58:08.79
Michael David Wilson
We are finally coming up to the time that we have together this evening this morning this day time has lost meaning at this point but I know I know.

58:20.95
Adam Nevill
I can get to bed before 3 a m.

58:27.99
Michael David Wilson
I I wonder though I mean in terms of older fiends of hell who are perhaps some of the unexpected audiences for this book. I mean this is obviously for the horror crowd for the. Crowd who like alien horror as well. But who might some readers be that you might not necessarily imagine would go for an Adam Nevill book.

59:01.58
Adam Nevill
Um, all I can say is like with all the ritual limited books I I Really do kind of write them for horror readers like myself write them for myself and other horror readers. And I don't I don't try to attract any readers beyond that if if they do maybe some science fiction or people that like speculative fiction Science Fiction may. May like it. But I think the readers who are most likely to appreciate the book or or the book in part will be readers of horror fiction. Um.

59:56.00
Adam Nevill
Beyond that I I haven't dared to speculate.

01:00:03.32
Michael David Wilson
Right? true.

01:00:04.70
Adam Nevill
But I think if you're interested in Alien Invasion or Cosmic Horror or Supernatural horror I don't think you'd be disappointed So within the wheelhouse of horror I mean that's quite a lot of. Ah, subgenres and interests I think it would appeal to people who enjoy Supernatural Horror um Cosmic horror or or kind of an Alien horror.

01:00:41.67
Adam Nevill
That that would that was my intention Anyway, kind of creatively. Um, but I can't see masses of romance fans or sword and sorcery fans.

01:00:59.37
Adam Nevill
Or cozy crime fans who knows I might be underestimating them I think they should I think they should come in droves. But um I'm not holding my breath.

01:01:04.39
Michael David Wilson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you pay much attention to kind of reader reviews and feedback as I know you know as an independent publisher that this can become kind of more important to see. How the readers are reacting and to get a sense of things I mean if you're published by a traditional publisher. It's probably easier to say oh I don't look at the goodreads reviews. But as an indie publisher an indie author who's doing everything it might. Form part of the picture.

01:01:49.48
Adam Nevill
Ah, definitely definitely.. You're much closer to readers and and you have much more engagement I mean I have a newsletter now. Um and particularly in social media I mean I'm all about I'm all about the readers. You know I still answer every message I get from I get from readers and interact as much as I can in social media and through the website and so Forth. So My contact with readers is much more immediate. It's It's much closer Now. You're more of a remove or you you know authors used to be but readers are the most important people in the room and they are the only reason for your continuance as a writer. So I place. Ah, much greater emphasis on readers than I do other writers or kind of peer groups of writers. Um, and I think that's a good thing. It's a good thing.

01:03:04.76
Adam Nevill
For readers. It can be. It can be time consuming but you know readers are worth it and I I always put them first to be honest, um.

01:03:21.30
Adam Nevill
Yes, so I do keep an eye on the reviews. Um I'm fortunate that I'd say over half of them are positive. Um I you know I read some of the. Bad reviews I get plenty of those um in some quarters but I'm not I'm not affected by them so much because by the time I release a book i'm.

01:03:57.54
Adam Nevill
Satisfied that in the period of time I took to write the book. It's probably the best piece of work that I could have produced and released. So if it's not to someone's taste. Um, I'm not going to beat myself up or suffer terrible insecurities or or loss of confidence. But you know some of the negative ones are interesting. In terms of getting your perspective of reader expectations I suppose and you know readers. They're not all the same readers are very very different and it's hard to generalize about readers I mean Ideal readers. But.

01:04:58.66
Adam Nevill
To get enough ideal readers who will give each book a chance and know where you're coming from and tend to appreciate it. Um, you can't put a price on them. Ideal readers are just. You know so valuable and make it all worthwhile.

01:05:17.61
Michael David Wilson
And speaking of readers where can they connect with you.

01:05:26.54
Adam Nevill
I'm on Facebook have an author page on Facebook Instagram Twitter and my newsletter monthly newsletter. That's been going now. 9 years um and that you know that's got a. Got a healthy following so there's a lot of news recommendations in that um backs stories to the books and I have a blog so there are there are multiple channels that I keep going.

01:06:02.50
Adam Nevill
Some degree of consistency.

01:06:06.57
Michael David Wilson
All right? And do you have any final thoughts for our listeners and viewers.

01:06:13.34
Adam Nevill
Just to say thanks to anyone that that that has gotten this far and has listened to this podcast and that tries the book that calls down the fiends of hell onto their bookshelves.

01:06:28.78
Michael David Wilson
All right? Thank you very much.

01:06:32.33
Adam Nevill
Thank you Mike thank you Bob good to see you again and we will get a date in the calendar for 2028.