TIH 457: Ronald Kelly on Southern Fried and Horrified, Jack Logan Western Stories, and Writing Horror

Michael David Wilson 0:28

Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson, and every episode alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella. We can't we're masters of horror, about writing, life lessons, creativity, and much more. Now, today's guest is Rondell Kelly. He is best known as a speculative fiction and Southern Fried horror writer. His tales are usually set in the southern United States. And His books include fear Undertaker's moon, blood kin, the Halloween store, and other tales of All Hallows Eve, after the burn, and most recently, his auto biography, and writing advice book, Southern Fried, and horrified. And this was a fascinating conversation. Ronald is a bit of a legend in terms of the horror genre. So it was really great to chat with him. And we spoke a lot about his life. We spoke about early life lessons growing up. And we got a little bit into that new book I mentioned southern fried and horrified. But really, if you enjoy this conversation, then you will enjoy his new book, because it's an autobiography. It's tales from Ronald's life, and he has lived a rich and varied life and he is not slowing down. He has some exciting things coming up. And you're going to hear all about that over the course of this two part conversation. Now, of course, if you want to listen to the whole episode in one go, then you could become a patron and I would love it if you did. As I've said before on recent episodes, I'm going through some things at the moment. So every bit of support is vital to helping me get through this. So head over to patreon.com forward slash This Is Horror, and see if it's a good fit for you have a little look at what we offer over there. Now before we get into this conversation, as always, a little bit of an advert break.

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Michael David Wilson 4:21

Okay, with that said, Here it is. It is Ronald Kelly On This Is Horror. Ronald, welcome to This Is Horror.

Ronald Kelly 4:36

Thanks for having me.

Michael David Wilson 4:37

It's a pleasure. And I know to begin with as we often do, I want to know what some of the early life lessons were that you learned growing up?

Ronald Kelly 4:48

Oh, well, you know, my mother always told me before you say a cross word or ugly word to anyone before a You even talk about somebody behind your back, you need to, you know, unzip their skin and step inside and look through their eyes. And, and I've always tried to do that, you know, sometimes I failed miserably, you know, you know, we're only human, you know, but, but that's something that my mother imparted to me and, and I just, you know, I just like to give try to get along with everybody you know, and, and support everybody I possibly can you know, it's not always like that these days, especially on social media. Yeah, you know, that's, that's one of the life lessons that my mother gave me, my mother, I grew up in a very religious family. We've a church Christ, which is a little a little more severe than Baptists, it was. There was a lot of restrictions on you. A lot of you know, you had to be kept in check all the time, and you're dying as a child. It's really my mother, she really wasn't like that. She she was very, she loved her. And she, she, she would take actually, when I was like, 11, or 12 years old, she would take me to horror movies, because my father he didn't like horror movies. They like westerns, so he wouldn't go with her. So she would drag me off to, to see some pretty gory bloody horror movies sometimes, you know, so she loved horror, she loves to read Gothic, you know, like the Gothic Horror, you know, the the kind of paperback books that had the moment on the Clifton, a windswept cliffs with the, the old house or the old castle in the background she had, she must have had hundreds of those books that she loved to read and everything. And one thing, you know, some strange show at the beginning, right, even before I was born. When before I was born, my father was in the army, he was serving in Korea after the after the Korean War. And so Mama was staying in a rental house by herself. And so she went upstairs in the rental house and had found a huge stack of EC comic books. This was like knighting, the early 1959 When she found the stack of Tales from the Crypt and the vault of horror and hold a fear and all that and she brought him downstairs and all the time that she was, you know, carrying me, you know, she was pregnant with me, she'd read these, these horrible comic books. So, so I feel like, you know, that maybe I've absorbed a lot of that, you know, and because I've always, you know, I've always loved, you know, bizarre things and monsters and stuff like that. And so, you know, I, you know, I do believe that you can read to children before they're born, and they will, you know, retain some of that because my, my oldest daughter, Riley, we, we read her 101 Dalmatians, but, you know, while she was in the womb, and everything, and I remember, like, several years later, she watched, you know, the Disney movie of it, and told me that the movie was better than the book. And she'd never read the book. So. So, you know, I do believe that, you know, maybe sometimes, there's, you know, maybe an emotional connection or recycled psychic connection between mother and child that can be transferred, you know, before birth, you know?

Michael David Wilson 9:12

Yeah, and I certainly liked that idea. And I think there's quite a bit of sense to it. Because, I mean, we think about the diet that the mother has, is obviously going to play a role in terms of forming the child but it would make sense then, that, you know, the kinds of things that you're consuming could have some sort of impact as well. And yeah, I love that as an origin story for you as well, that you were being fed all these kind of monster comics and gory things before you're even birthed. It's like you were born for horror. That is damn cool story. But

Ronald Kelly 9:51

instead of Dr. Seuss, and you know, Curious George I was getting fed you know, by Brain eating zombies and maniacs acts.

Michael David Wilson 10:05

That's it. But we've, we've got a lot of great stuff and horror stories from you as a result. So I would argue it was so worth it. But, I mean, this may have just been the way that you've phrased it. But I just gotta go back in terms of, you know, you said that your mum found this huge stack of EC comic books. When you say found, do you literally mean like, hang on a fucking minute when they sold us the house? It came with these comic so like, what? pathway? Go on? Yes, she was

Ronald Kelly 10:43

written the house. So you know, she had something to put up in the attic, I guess, to store up an attic. So she went up there and kind of explored around and found these old comic books. So when most of it was probably a previous renders and lift them up there. But I wish he would have just kept them. Yeah. Because I would love to add them, you know, later on about, you know, like the reprint. You know, they see brief prints and stuff like that.

Bob Pastorella 11:11

Man I could kick myself into but growing up, because I'm probably I think, and I'm sure you're older than me, but growing up. I read the creepy and eerie comics. Oh, yeah. Head boxes of them. And we throw them away. Yeah. And

Ronald Kelly 11:29

I was, I was always into, like, Famous Monsters in House of mystery, the DC house of mystery in House of secrets and stuff like that.

Bob Pastorella 11:41

Yeah. And it's like, if we did kept those things, man, you know, just just a nostalgia of it. And plus, you know, that'd be worth something if they were in good condition. Right, you know, but it's like, no, you don't need I think it was because I graduated two regular books. You know, like, you can't keep these and keep those. Right. It's like, we'll just throw them away. I don't read them anymore. And also man, you know, Famous last words.

Ronald Kelly 12:10

Now, my mother would let me read some creepy and eerie but she would not let me read vampire real trouble with that like she was. She's so good. She's half naked. So

Bob Pastorella 12:25

are you used to take them and hide them in the creepies? Yeah. Yeah, my dad would get him he goes, ain't nothing wrong with that. And just comics. How did in that creepy one, and she'll never find it.

Michael David Wilson 12:37

Yeah, it's interesting how, you know, over the years when talking to people about their childhood and the kinds of things that they were consuming, that there seems to be a recurring pattern of parents allowing their children to read the most kind of brutal, messed up things, but you throw a little bit of nudity into the mix. And they're like, Yeah, you can't look at that.

Ronald Kelly 13:03

Yeah, it was funny. I remember when I was like, guess I was like, 10 years old. You know, I love Mad Magazine, you know. And there was a lady in our church, and she had, she became this big crusade against Mad Magazine. Because, you know, there was there was some, you know, some humor in Mad Magazine, it was really, you know, subversive, and, and didn't fit into the Christian lifestyle, the way some people, you know, that I grew up without. And so she, I remember, she showed up at the door one time and was doing her pitch to my mother, you know, about Mad Magazine. And she had a copy and she showed her this little, this little cartoon, it was a little bear asked man, and my mother looked at it and I'll never forget, I was like, you know, I was in the living room, who listened to this whole thing? And my mother snorted. And then she giggled, and then she just flat out, you know, go fall. I mean, she just, she just broke up and this this, this little church lady got all red faced and everything and stopped off. But my mother didn't take stuff like that, too. Seriously. You know, she you know, she was a devout you know, religious woman but she she she didn't think there was anything wrong with her, you know, or liking to read it or, or, or watch movies or TV shows or anything like that. So that was a big, you know, okay for me to pursue it later on when I decided to, to write it.

Michael David Wilson 14:52

Yeah, it sounds like an interesting dynamic growing up as well that you were in one or the line strict for of Christianity with character of Christ. But then in terms of your family's approach to it, it was a little bit looser. So I wonder, having that juxtaposition. I mean, did that ever kind of create problems for your family within the church community with you perhaps being a little bit freer in terms of what you could and couldn't consume?

Ronald Kelly 15:25

Well, yeah, we're just kind of we were always like, we wouldn't. Our family wasn't a very well, they were outgoing family, but we were, we kept to ourselves. You know, we were introverts, mainly my mother, she, she suffered from depression and anxiety all her life, and she just kind of kept herself she didn't. So if, like, any of the members of the church even knew that we were indulging, we were indulging. Yeah. So. But yeah, I mean, she, she always, you know, you know, every month she'd go out and give me Famous Monsters magazine, or what new Monster Model was put together, and, you know, the Aurora monster model kits and stuff. I did a lot of that when I was a kid. And later on, when I was like, 12, I got heavily into like, ventriloquism and magic, you know, doing magic and stuff like that. So I've had a, you know, a very childhood of just, you know, whatever I love to do, I was allowed to do it, you know, as far as you know, interest and stuff like that.

Michael David Wilson 16:45

Yeah, it's great that you had that creative freedom to explore. So whilst there might have been restrictions, in other senses, there was never a restriction on your creativity you're on, you're essentially doing the things you wanted to do, particularly pertaining to art. But I mean, you said that your mother suffered from a great deal of depression, and anxiety, and something that you said before, and I think it's in your, your fantastic, forthcoming book, Southern Fried and horrified. And in terms of that book, by the way, the the advert in a sense for that is this conversation, because, you know, there's a lot you, you're getting with that book, you're getting just an candid insight into Ronald Kelly's life. You're also getting some writing lessons that's dispersed in between the chapters, but I mean, if you like, run stories, then you're gonna love this memoir, in a sense. But yeah, I think something that you've said, is that your mother had had a second sight. So premonitions. And so you perhaps attributed that as being linked to having the anxiety and depression.

Ronald Kelly 18:17

Yeah, that's true. She she did have the gift of psychic insight. She usually thought it was the curse, because mainly what she could pick up was when people were gonna die. I remember I was very small, six year old, five or six years old, and we were in the kitchen and my mother dropped a can of biscuits, and he hit the dog, our dog on the head. And at that moment, she saw my uncle being crushed underneath a truck, and she knew that he was gonna die. And for two weeks, she agonized over this, you know, she, she thought, you know, should I tell him, you know, should I warn him, and two weeks later, he was in a head on collision and was killed in a terrible head on collision so and that that wasn't the only time that happened. We had a next door neighbor who had a garden and he handed a watermelon over the fence to her one time and she saw him blind in a casket and his Sunday sight and knew he was gonna die. And he did two weeks later. So I grew up seeing this time and time and time again. And it was it was frightening. It was frightening for her she, she felt guilty about it. She didn't know why it happened. And she felt guilty guilty about not warning people but she was also she was afraid. being ridiculed and you know, you know, condemned maybe by the church, you know that Yeah, that would have been, you know, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have believed it. Anyone who had believed it in the church might have thought it was, you know, didn't come from God, it came from another source. So she did, she had a lot of, you know, and it was funny because I, in my teenage years, and in my younger 20, I mean, younger 20s, early 20s, I had a lot of anxiety and depression too. And, and I believe that we, me, and my mother had a psychic learning that, you know, we could feel, you know, infinite input, we could feel what each other, you know, sort of, were feeling at the time. And when she was depressed, I was depressed and all that, and when, when she passed away, it was just like, like, a cord was cut, you know, I never felt like that again. So, you know, a lot of people don't believe in psychic abilities or second side, but I do because, you know, I grew up with it. It was, it was just something that happened and in our family dynamic, you know, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 21:21

yeah. And this is something I haven't spoken about on the podcast before, but my mother has a similar thing. And so I mean, one of the things that was when she was waving goodbye to a number of her relatives, when she was a little girl, she just had this thought, like, oh, you know, this uncle, I'm never gonna see him again. This is the last time I'm gonna wave goodbye to him. And then true enough, like a week or so later, he died. And I mean, my mother has had countless examples of things like this. But then, when I was just about graduating from university, I was looking at taking a job in America. I've mother lay, it rang me up, and she was distraught. And she was in bits. And she's like, if you go to America for that job, you're not coming back. You're gonna die. You can't you can't take that job. And, you know, in terms of what I believe we're second sight like I, I don't know, I don't know. But I do know that if my mom's saying that, and I have to make a risk reward calculation. It's like, okay, I'm not gonna take that job. I'm not gonna take that flight. And actually, a few years ago, like, because, because I haven't been to America yet. But I want to get over especially for all these great horror conventions. I rang my mom up, and I was like, Do you remember when you told me that? And she's like, Yeah. And I was like, Can I clarify? Was that like, if I ever go to America? She's like, No, no, that was for that specific situation. And it's like, okay, so I'm thinking about going into some horror conventions, do you, you feel in any Lincoln's that okay. And she's like, Yeah, that's okay. You can go to America. specific situation,

Bob Pastorella 23:23

you're gonna have to contact your rep before you go. It's everything's still good. Yeah. But yeah, and he talked me like a risk reward situation. That's because because of past history, me personally, I don't believe but if my mom was like that, I would be the same way. I would be like, hey, you know, because because, hey, she felt this, okay. This and this happened, because not because she felt it, but she felt the premonition of it. So there could be something there. So I think your your belief, or your ability to believe is defined by how close it actually affects you. Right. But, you know, I don't have anybody like that in my family there. They haven't told me. So. But, you know, that's, dude, if I was you, and then it says, same situation, I'd be gone or to Michael. Like, whoa, I

Ronald Kelly 24:19

need to know. I keep looking and kind of looking at my kids and seeing if maybe it skips a generation and one of my kids might, you know, take on that sort of, you know, ability but so far, you know, I hadn't seen it, but, you know, mama she it wasn't always bad. I mean, she, you know, I asked her advice on things, you know, you know, Mama, what's your feeling on this? You know, am I gonna sell this book or, you know, she, you know, actually she's she died like two months before my first novels published by zebras. So that was that was very difficult for me. because, you know, the the first novel I wrote was based on her life as a child and, and so yeah, I mean she she could you know, very I mean, she did tell my brother one time he it was like Memorial Day weekend and he was going somewhere and she told him he didn't need to go because he was gonna have a car wreck and and so he said no, I'm leaving and so 45 minutes later we got a call and he'd had a car wreck, you know, somebody pulled out from the broad side of their cars. So, you know, she did she did have feelings and and premonitions like,

Michael David Wilson 25:38

yeah, yeah. And I mean, because that happens with my mother too. I do check in about things. And I said to her, you know, if you get a feeling, even if it seems irrational or silly, just let me know. Because also you might get a feeling or an idea. And it seems silly, but then if you tell me then I've got further context to put it into. So yeah, it's, I mean, maybe it's good that it hasn't skipped a generation because as you say, it's a gift, but it's also a cast. Maybe you don't want someone to be able to have that. I mean, in the in your book, one of the things, one of the premonitions that perhaps she was most terrifying, given what actually happened was when your mother took your grandmother out of town for a little bit.

Ronald Kelly 26:37

Yes. You want was Yeah. My my mother moved. When she was 14 years old. She moved away from her. The little town she grew up in and went lived in Nashville and worked in the textile mills. And about 1950. Grandma told me that Mama's showed up, showed up on her doorstep, one Saturday morning, and said we're going to Nashville. So grandma could see that Mama was concerned and she didn't question it. She said whenever you know, mama had some kind of feeling like that. She didn't she never questioned it. So she got ready. And they got on the bus and drove to Nashville, Smith today sharpened and everything. And when they got back, they found out that one of my uncle's had to my uncle's had gotten drunk gardening and altercation in one of my uncle's kill, shot and killed My other uncle. So mama had known that somebody was gonna get killed that day. She didn't know who it was. But she knew that she had the Protect grandmama from from being there, you know. And, of course, it was difficult when they got back and you're trying to discover this happened. But that's one of the the one of the most tragic things that happened, our family that mom picked up on.

Michael David Wilson 28:11

Yeah. And I mean, something that you didn't divulge in the book is, I mean, what kind of impact did that have on your family and on your mother going forward? Because I mean, psychologically. And, and in fact, in every facet, really, for that tragedy to befall a family. I mean, it's got to have some long lasting impact.

Ronald Kelly 28:37

Does, I mean, my mother's side of the family, there was a lot of alcoholism. And my grandfather was practically like, the town drunk, you know, and in the 40s, and all that, and my uncles when they got drunk, they would nicest people in the world when they were sober. But when they got drunk, they were, they got me. So that's one reason I have never taken a drink of alcohol. I never wanted to put my mother and my grandmother through something like that. I mean, they had enough to go through, you know, would have been in the family why? And I just, I just did not want to risk. You know, I mean, I think it's, I think there's some hereditary traits from you know, being an alcoholic and all that. So I just, I never did, you know, I never had the desire to drink alcohol or anything like that. So at least that's, that's one thing. spurred my mother, you know, that, you know, tried to abstain from from drinking because of the tres de that our family had. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 29:53

And I mean, how about your children? What is their relationship with alcohol? If with that knowledge here that potentially be in a hereditary trait,

Ronald Kelly 30:05

I don't think maybe my oldest daughter might, you know, she might have, you know, a drink every now and then I know she's out on her own. So I can't say for sure. But you know, that, you know, my other two kids or their teenagers in the house here, and I know that they don't. So I'm just hoping that the, you know, common sense, and maybe, uh, maybe, you know, after I've told them the story is before so they know that, you know, they may be predisposed to today. So, you know, I'm just hoping maybe, you know, it doesn't know history doesn't repeat itself anywhere. Along the Kelly lines.

Michael David Wilson 30:49

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, tell me about some of the first stories, you remember grandmama Spicer telling you?

Ronald Kelly 31:01

Well, she always see love to tell family history from, you know, around the Civil War, you know, she they, she, she told me that my great, great grandfather, they suspected of him being a Confederate spy, because during the battle Donelson, after the battle dance, when he came home, he kissed his, his wife and children goodbye, and got his horse and rode away. And they said, the Union soldiers, tracked him to the Cumberland River, and he just disappeared, you know, they didn't know whether he tried to ford the river and drown are what happened to him and my great great grandmother, she heard a private detective, you know, after the war and tried to find out what happened to him. And, and there was like, reports that he might have gone out to New Mexico are, you know, going out with somewhere and, and, you know, but we never did. You know, the family never did know exactly what happened to my great, great grandfather, but that's one thing that got me interested in Civil War history and a western history, you know, maybe that because my family had ties to so much of that. Another thing, great, you know, Grandma will always tell me ghost stories. She said, when she was a small child that they would pass by this house, this deserted house, and she'd hear like a third and a scream, and they would run to school, you know, pass the House if they heard that and, and then later, she found out that a man had bludgeoned his wife to death for those stick afar would, you know, been sent to prison and you're saying, and that's how that house became deserted. So that's another story. I remember her telling me. I mean, she had all kinds of weird and bizarre stories. She told me a story about her and a little, one of her best friends when she was a girl was they were playing around this deserted mansion. And they were walking along on top of this wall, this stone wall and her friend fell into like a big ol clump of devil she always calls it devil series cactus and fell into this cactus. And for the next three days that the little girl lay in bed, and while these, the needles are the quills of this cactus work towards her internal organs, and finally killed her a few days later. So it isn't a wonder that I have this kind of imagination. Yeah, after hearing all these stories, yeah.

Michael David Wilson 34:06

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, they do you think your grandmother's storytelling was a pivotal moment in terms of making you want to be a storyteller? Because I mean, obviously, we've got that but we've got the comics, we've got the universal monster movies. I mean, is that one that you think above the others kind of drove you towards storytelling and drove you towards horror?

Ronald Kelly 34:37

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, at the beginning, I only wanted to be an artist, you know, I can always draw very well as a child. And when I got in high school, you know, I want to I wanted to be a comedy record is the one that got heavily into comics, you know, superhero comics and horror comics and wanting to be a comic book artist and a I'm, in my junior year, I met a fellow classmate named Lowell Cunningham. And we collaborated a lot, you know, and he would write the scripts and I would do the, the artwork and, and then I started gravitating towards doing my own comics, you know, making my own heroes up and stuff and doing comics. And then I, toward my middle of my junior year, I took some, some classes, like journalism and, and creative writing everything in if I only decided I just wanted to write fiction, you know, and, because I had, I had already sent some some of my work off to DC and everything. And, and that's a funny story too, because at I sent an idea for one of my comic book carriers to DC, and an art editor wrote me back named Jack, and we just got we kind of struck up a relationship and wrote back and forth, and he would tell me, you know, a lot of information about, you know, writing comics, and drawing comics, how to draw the panels and stuff like that. And, and so, so, you know, like, like, anything, you know, it's, our conversation just kind of died down. And we did write data anymore. And then, you know, years and years later, I guess, a couple years ago, I found those old letters, and the first letter said, was signed his full name, it was Jack Davis, and it was signed the way the artists, the ACA artists, Jack Davis name was saying, so. So thought is this, you know, is this right? Did he actually work for DC yo, in the, in the mid 70s? And, and I had no idea, you know, because he'd already passed on after that, I think and, but, you know, a few months after that, you know, I thought, well, who can I ask, you know, to find out for sure. And, and I knew that Brian Keene had, he'd worked with DC and Marvel, maybe he knew, because he, you know, Brian knows, he knows a lot about comic book history and everything. So, you know, takes the brand. I said, could you tell me if the Jack Davis to the artists for Mad Magazine and DC Comics, he worked for DC in the mid 70s. And it was like, a few seconds later, he said, Yes, indeed. He said, that's, that's very cool. You know? Yeah. So I had that brush with greatness, you know, when I was 16 years old, and didn't know it at the time. And so, but one of the times, you know, he told me, Jack told me when we lose correspondent that, you know, you pretty much at that time, you pretty much had to live in New York and be available, you know, if you were gonna be a comic book artist and everything. I'm sure it's not like that now, probably. But. So that was one thing that kind of deterred me from Cartoon comic book, you know, work. And so I decided to, you know, start writing fiction. So I started, you know, doing a few short stories and everything like that in my high school years.

Michael David Wilson 38:31

Yeah. And you mentioned here collaborate in your in high school with low Conyngham. You didn't You didn't mention that he's the creator of men in black. You both went on to do great things. I'm wondering, do you ever have a connection? Are you still in touch your review, kind of reconnected after all these years.

Ronald Kelly 38:58

Matter of fact, like, a couple of weeks ago, he he contacted me on Messenger, He said the, his his his new his mother had passed away a few weeks ago, and he said, he said this is low on my mother's Facebook page. And and so he gave me he's, he's got his own Facebook page was under a different name. You know, it's like, it's not under his own name. But and then we, you know, we started messaging each other and, and I invited him to the book launch because he only lives on the other end of the state from me. So I'm really hoping that he shows up at the book launch. And and we can, you know, talk old times and I'll bring some of the old comics that we used to work on reminisce about

Michael David Wilson 39:54

that would be awesome. And I mean, in terms of the book launch period, you told us a little bit off air about it, but tell us what you're doing for southern fried and horrifying?

Ronald Kelly 40:08

Well, we, we've, we're gonna have a book launch party and our art show and it's gonna be in the junction depot in Carthage, Tennessee. It's, it's restored the train depot. And I have a lot of art shows and stuff. And I'm the lady who's, you know, one of the people over, like the art commission of our county, Ginny Penuel is she's our high school art teacher, and my kids love her. I mean, she, she has she, she loves her too, you know, because I've been to her studio and she just like, had the creature of like getting, you know, painted on the wall and everything where she painted on the wall and everything. So she's a big patron of the arts in the county. And, and she loves her. And I asked her, you know, can we? Can we do the book launch at the depot? And she said, Yeah, and so I thought, well, yeah, I should invite some guests. So I invited the Liyan got to bring some of her art and, and, you know, prints and stuff to say, oh, and everything. And so Liana will be there and and Jeff Strang will be there, and he's gonna be signing some of his books. Bram Stoker, award winning Jeff Strahan. Yeah. So that's gonna be really nice. As I said, I Brigitte Nielsen, new writer did, I just, I actually did the foreword for her short story collection bouquet of Israel. She's gonna be there. And she's gonna be signing a few books. And we'll have Jay Rodney Turner, my, my AUDIO BOOK near writer, and he's gonna read some stories, and we'll have a q&a session. Lynn's gonna ask me some questions. And and I'll have plenty of Southern Fried books to the side and say, oh, and actually, the cover of Southern Fried horrified was, was painted by Justin T. Keynes, who did the the splatter Western covers for the they've said, press, spider Western theories. And, and he did cover from my book, I actually requested them when when I, you know, asked Jay Jared, I said, Can we get just in the did cover? And he said yeah, well, we'll, you know, get him involved in everything. And I'm so blessed to have to cover that book is absolutely beautiful. And we're also gonna have prints, you know, just got some prints made up of there. So we'll have some just think coons prints to sell at the book launch too. So that's going to be September the third from noon to four. So if anybody's in the Middle Tennessee area, or they want to take a little road trip, I mean, I've got people saying they're going to come from Kentucky and North Carolina and Alabama. And, and so, you know, Brian came and said he would love to come. So I don't know if he's gonna show up him and Mary might come down. But, you know, that's a long way to drive from Pennsylvania. So. So yeah, I think we're gonna have a good time, I think we're gonna have a good turnout. And, and it's, you know, that book is a very special book to me, you know, I didn't write it because I thought I was famous enough, or, you know, popular enough for anything. I just, you know, I thought, well, you know, I've been around for, you know, I've been riding hard for 36 years, and I've had my ups and downs and went to heaven and hell, and maybe, you know, people be interested in my story, and maybe, you know, I could help some people with some writing advice, you know, give them a few tools for their toolbox, riding, you know, scales and stuff like that. So, so, yeah, and, you know, I think anybody's in the area on September 3, you know, come out and see us, you know, I'd love to meet you.

Michael David Wilson 44:28

Yeah. And I would certainly recommend people picking up a coffee or a copy of southern fried and horrified and I mean, I think it works and it has an appeal on numerous levels. So I mean, most obviously will be for Ron Kelley fans and people who have followed your career and they want to learn more about you. But then also, as I said before, you've got little nuggets and bits of it. writing advice between chapters under the grips and bits, subsection. But, you know, on top of that just the memoir is very, very interesting. So even if there are people who don't know much about you, you've lived a rich and a storied life, that's just, it's just an entertaining greed. And, you know, predominantly, that's why I read anyway to be entertained. Yeah, and you certainly do that?

Ronald Kelly 45:35

Well, you know, that's, that's always been my goal. From day one is, you know, enter, just entertain people just have fun with it. I don't like to write a lot of, you know, dark, angst ridden fiction, like, you know, some horror writers do, I like to little fun little nostalgia in my work and, and, you know, I take some of the horror tropes and kind of twist it, you know, Southern Fried and have fun with it. And so that's just always way of being and, you know, I got that storytelling. I guess I get that storytelling ability from my grandmother. And, and I always, like, wanted to carry it on. And you know, where she did it vocally. Do it word.

Bob Pastorella 46:29

I found it. Very inspirational. Read it, like the whole thing. And just, you know, the thing is, like, you, you were talking, you hit some lows, but it's like that, that writings ingrained? You know, I did a similar thing where I barely wrote anything for about 10 years. And it's, it's like, all you need is that one little thing. And you're right back on the horse. Right. And sometimes you it's right there in front of you, and you can't even grasp it. And it takes a while. But it's like it in that I found that very inspirational, very inspirational.

Ronald Kelly 47:09

Yeah, you know, that 10 years. I mean, it was, it was a rough 10 years. You know, I always had like ideas of, you know, to ride but I just didn't think I was had the chance to get back into it again, you know, is when I left, the horror industry had pretty much imploded, you know, the mass market paperback, at least, and editors wouldn't read in horror, you know, or buying horror. And so, my, my agent, you know, when he called me and told me, the bad news, he gave me some advice. He said, write anything, but horror, and I actually tried to get into several other genres. I tried to write the children, you know, children's books, or westerns, I've, you know, for a long time, I wanted to be a Western writer, but the market was so narrow, it was difficult to get into. And so several months after ZBrush, shut down, I tried to get into, you know, other genres, and it just wouldn't happen. It just, you know, I was a horror writer, you know, and it didn't happen, and I got, you know, I got frustrated, and I got bitter. And so I just decided, well, you know, I'd had my shot, and it was over weird. And so, you know, pulled the steel toe boots out of the closet and blowing stuff up. And, and, you know, went back to work in the factories again, and I did that for 10 years. And I actually, I still do, I mean, I'll be, I'll be retiring this November, but, you know, I've, I've, I've worked blue collar, but all my life, except for the six years I wrote for zebra wrote full time then. So I went back to the factories, and the whole the whole time, you know, it was one idea after another came into my head. And, and it's funny, because I would write write them down on a slip of paper, anything handy. Write them, you know, a little bits and pieces of an idea for a story or a bulletin, and I have a coffee can at home and, and I would, I would put those slips of paper in there. And, you know, I had no idea that I would actually, you know, have a chance to write again, but it's funny, because I found that a few months ago, I found that coffee can again is in it's loaded with slips of paper with all kinds of ideas and, and I told myself, you know, when I retired this November, I'm getting dumped that that coffee can add on my desk and go through those ideas. You know, it could be it could be a decade or two books right there.

Bob Pastorella 49:56

Yeah. And that's, you know, you've been you've been went through it all. And, you know, from the inside and, you know, when zebra and leisure and all that happen, we could only saw it from the outside, that there were no horror books. You know? So it's like, you know, what do you mean? You know, and it's like there's no harm done like there's none. And, you know, even then as as a young as a young writer who was still on published, you know, I even tried I went to St. I've tried crime, and I liked crime fiction, you know, and I could probably, I think I can write crime fiction, I always had to put like, a supernatural horror kind of concept with it, you know, what I call weird crime. But, you know, it was when I was reading your, you know, Southern Fried and horrified man, I felt that. And it's, it's that it's that one thing, of course, in your case, it was a big thing. Nobody was doing what you were doing. But all it took was just a little bit to get you back, you know? And that's, that's all it took for me, was just reading certain types of books. And it's like, Oh, should I can do what I want to do. You know, so awesome. You know, if if anybody can take anything away from this, it's like, you know, keep keep your your, your blinders pulled back as wide as you can, because it only takes one little thing.

Ronald Kelly 51:25

It does it. You know, I had I had a friend, his name was Mark Hickerson. And he was, if we were friends, you know, back during the time that a row fear and blood kin and all that. And, you know, after I've lost the, you know, the zebra gig, he always encouraged me to go back to you know, you know, he said, he'd say, Hey, there's this new riders name is Brian Keene. He's Rodin written the zombie book. And he's, you know, he's brought, he's kind of brought her back, you know, into the limelight again. And, and, and I would tell him, Well, I'm not interested, you might, you know, that boat sailed, I don't know, I don't want to put all my effort into trying to, because I actually, I thought, well, if I came back to writing it, it be just as long trying to get back in it as it was at the beginning, which, from the time I started writing to the time I got published was 12 years. So I thought I didn't I don't want to invest another 12 years into trying to get published again, but then a brought me some books from a convention, signed books, by you know, Brian Keene and, and Brian Smith and James Newman, and, and Brian's copy the the rise and that he did I got the, they said, Thanks for the inspiration, you know, and, and I thought, did I really inspire anybody to, you know, to write horror or anything, and so I started, you know, it kind of, you know, put me in the mindset that maybe what I'd done, hadn't been, you know, a useless Seyfert or anything like that, because it just seemed like, well, you know, those books had been published, and it was over and done with, but and then, you know, I was told that they were talking about me, I'm Robert McCain's website on the message board and asking, wanting to know where I was, and if I was Dad, or not, or something, and, and so I didn't have a computer at the time. And I told my wife, I said, you know, when you go into the office, you know, pull up this dismissive board and print off the pages for me, so I can read it, you know, and she did and, and I actually have those pages printed, and read through all the comments, and, and people were, you know, going, you know, praising my work, and we'll know what happened to me and everything. And it got the wheels turning in my head. And I thought, you know, maybe I should check out some of the horror and so I went on my bookshelf and got the risin down and read that and loved it and, and read the read James Newman's midnight rain, and that book just opened my eyes and thought, you know, I think I could do this again, maybe I have a chance. And so I visually went on, Robin, Kevin's message board and and as I was coming back and, and the first person, one of the first people who called me was Richard chizmar, from cemetery dance. And, you know, I'd known rich for years. I mean, you know, back I was published several times and cemetery dance magazine in the late 80s and early 90s. And, and rich called me up and he said, I'm glad to have you back on, what do you want to do? And it just kind of opened the door for me in and I said, Well, I'd like to do a novel A short story collection. And so we did hail Hala in hardcover and my first short story collection, midnight grindon and other Twilight tears, which was, like 37 stories from old small press days in the late 80s and early 90s. So, so that, you know, I found that, you know, it wasn't as hard as I thought, because see, I've had this body of work, you know, in my corner there, you know, to help me get established again, so. So, you know, like a year or two later, David Wilson, David now Wilson with crossroad press. So, content demand we we started putting those those zebra books out in a book and all that and all go Bush contacted me, and we put all the zebra books out in limited hardcovers and as the central Ronald Kelly coalition, so that just started the ball rolling on this second leg of my writing career.

Michael David Wilson 56:13

Yeah. And I mean, I just want to go back to the first leg and you talking about, you know, 12 years of submitting before your first short story sale in 1986. And obviously, you know, we talk a lot on This Is Horror, about the need to have like, yeah, I guess, to be built for rejection to have, like, a kind of spine for that sort of thing. But I mean, 12 years, that is a long, long time, you know, to have that grit and to have that perseverance. So, I mean, I wondered, could you talk us through that time a little bit? And I mean, what were the things that just kept you going and kept you motivated? Because I imagine, this is something that some of our listeners who are out there in the trenches who are trying to get their start really could do with hearing?

Ronald Kelly 57:19

Well, it started, like I said, I started writing, like, short stories. When I was in high school, and when I graduated, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't go to college. A college graduate and my family was like, as rare as whiskers on a bullfrog, you know, I came from blue collar, farming families, and both my grandfather were tobacco farmers. And one of my grandfather, he tobacco farmed half his life and worked for the state of running a backhoe for the rest of his life. So, so I came from, you know, hard work in stock. And that's what I was expected to do. And so, you know, I've worked in the families to work in the factories and in other jobs and stuff like that, and in wrote on the side, and, you know, you you come out of high school, and you want to be a writer and you think, you know, well you know, it's gonna be a couple months and then I'm gonna be the next Stephen King and, and all that noone just don't happen that way. And, yeah, it's a lot of hard work to it, it's a lot of learning the craft and developing the voice of your own and, and that's what I did for those 12 years actually wanted to be a Western writer before I wanted to be a horror writer. So I've read a I was huge on Louis Lumira books and, and so I wanted to be a Western writer, but you know, like I said, the market was real narrow, and you couldn't get into it. So I don't know about 1995 1996 I thought, you know, nothing was working for me, you know, I graduated in 1977. So I thought well, maybe I should write horror, you know, and go back to my first love and so I did and and injected, you know, my upbringing in my my southern upbringing and all that. And it clicked I mean, I started selling book of stock short stories to the little small press magazines like def RAM and and cemetery dance and grew and all that and, and, I believe me and Robert McCammon and gentle Landsdale was about dolly ridership. We do in southern horror back then. So that sort of gave me an advantage, you know, the editors of the magazine, you know, they liked that, you know, that down home kind of rural southern feeling put into my work and all that. So that kind of that kind of helped me get established, you know, and I had an agent around that time, Scott mirdif literary literary agency and submitted my first horror novel, hindsight, which was, it was based on my mother's life as a child during the Great Depression, you know, in her psychic experiences when she was a child. And also, it was kind of based on a triple murder that happened in her county when she was a child. Three young teenage boys got murdered in a barn and fade to the hogs. And so I kind of combined those two stories and in wrote hindsight, my first book and in my agent shopped it around for two and a half years, you know, and I always like to say that he went, you know, through the alphabet of publishers from A to Z, because zebra so Xaver about it, of course, you know, when saber Botha thought, oh, great, it's zebra, you know, because zebra at that time was considered like the redheaded stepchild of horror publishers, you know, they wouldn't, you know, they had the skeleton covers and they had the, they didn't have a sterling reputation among, you know, the harsh media at that time. You know, there was you know, I remember when I started out right for zebra there was, you know, Dale obs and several other publishers that were very well respected and, and here I was writing for zebra and I remember I went to the World harbor convention I was on a panel with with

Carl Edward Wagner and Charles grant. And when we were in the green room before we went on the panel and Charles grant, he said, he said, I've read your stuff. I love it. But you know, why the hell are you writing for zebra? Yeah. I felt Oh, I'm in trouble. Weird. But yeah, it's funny, because, you know, when I came back and Grady Hendricks wrote the, you know, paperbacks from Ohio. And, again, it really gave zebra and leisure you know, all the, the mass market paperback, hardback paperback publishers, you know, of the old days, you know, gave him a new respectability and, and, you know, what I was once ashamed of, I'm kind of proud of now that I was part of that, and, you know, and, and so. Yeah, no, I wrote for, I wrote for zebra for six years, did eight novels with him. And, and it wasn't always easy, because, you know, they, it was funny because zabor would, they would hire unskilled writers, I mean, they would, you know, writers would submit books to them, and if I saw them some promise to it, they would harm to the writer and for both time, they would sign you up to a multi book deal and you would practically learn your craft as he's writing these these paperback horror novels. And that's, that's kind of what happened to me. You know, that's, that's how I'd say it was kind of crude at first, you know, learning the ropes, you know, and because you know, zebra they like to put out the big thick doorstopper books. I mean, my contracts had a stipulation in my books had to be 450 450 pages to 500 pages. That's so it's not like it is today. We're, you know, we're putting out novellas and stuff, you know, and so you had to put a lot of work into it. You had to put a lot of character development in it and subplots and so sometimes it was a stretch right in these, these zebra horn levels because sometimes you you had a 200 200 page book and zebra won't do that. You know, fatten it up to 400 500 pages, so So n zebra only pay you twice a year so it was a struggle financially. You and you had the really budget your money and and you know, you'd be you'd be standing in front of your post office box or your mailbox praying that you'd get a check, you know, the pay to rent sometimes. And so it wasn't always, you know, you know, when you've had a few books under you know, and the royalties started building steadily it was, it was okay. But at the beginning it was it was kind of hard to make ends meet.

Michael David Wilson 1:05:27

Yeah. Yeah. And that is an interesting point that you make to the actually with retrospect, yes, zebra boots are seen more favorably than they were back in the day. And perhaps you know, Grady Hendrix is a part of that. But I mean, when we look at the zebra lineup, and we see the likes of yourself and yo on land, Stan and Bentley letter and I mean, these are amongst some of the best storytellers we have. So it's no wonder really, that people are now looking back with fondness.

Ronald Kelly 1:06:10

Yeah, you know, a lot of people, a lot of people love though covers, you know, when I when I wrote for zebra, I never had any say so about my covers. And actually, they, they changed most of my titles, my books, so you never knew what the cover would be. Or the title would be until they sent you a stack of cover flats, and you get that envelope when you open it up, and you take a breath, hoping it would be some good and sometimes it was great spirits. And sometimes it wasn't so great, because there was more than a few times, but I would look at a cover flat and I'm like what the hell? So one of them was Father's little helper, which was originally called 12 gauge and it's it's a very dark serial killer kind of crime suspense book. And so they they decide to call it fathers little helper, I guess that's a snappy zebra, you know, title that they came up with? Actually, I gave them that title because part one of the book was called father's little helper. And I saw that and I thought, hey, let's let's see, use that for the title go. And I wasn't too happy about it. I actually called My editor zebra in New York and pleaded my case, you know, please don't don't peddle this book. You know, I was little helper because I thought it sounds like a children's book or something. Right. But they are the wheels are already in motion so that you couldn't swipe them too much, you know, and stuff like that. I think the only book that I published with them that had the original title was blood. Kim. Last one.

Michael David Wilson 1:08:04

Yeah, yeah. And of course, at the time, when you were with the brain, you also wrote a couple of Jack Logan books, books, thunder, the jack Logan, name a couple of Western. So I mean, how did that come about? And, I mean, also, what what did your writing routine look like at the time? Because I imagine, you know, being in the horror mindset, and then the Western mindset was quite a shift that you had to make.

Ronald Kelly 1:08:35

Yeah, well, my agent, he contacted me and he said, say that Jake, how Logan? Horror. I mean, Jake Logan, western series was ghost written by. I didn't know it at the time. But there's ghosts written like, by five different people. And my agent called me up and he said, he said, Would you be interested in ghostwriting for Jake Logan? And, you know, I was kind of, well, I'm a horror writer. I don't know if I really want to get into that, you know, and, you know, I wanted to be a Western writer for a long time, but I thought, well, I'm, you know, I'm writing horror now. And, and I really didn't, I might have been pride that, you know, what, it's not going to have my name on it. So I don't want to fool with it, you know. And so I actually called Joe Lansdale Joe. Joe, was almost like a mentor to me back, then, you know, I would call him up and ask advice. And he was gracious enough to, you know, talk to me a lot. And he actually gave me a first blurb on the book and all that and I called Joe up and I said them, you know, they they want me to write a go strike for Jake Logan. He said, Well, I've go straight and before you know, you want to go for it. And so I said, yeah. So I'll tell him he and I would and And I wrote to, to Jake Logan's. And I is it's funny because Jake Logan was a male, very macho male oriented series of Western books. And you had to put at least two or three, six things in these books. That was something that I wasn't accustomed to doing. But they would, they would give you the Jake Logan Bible, and you would, you know, told you what you could do, you know, and what you couldn't do, you know, as far as six things and stuff like that, and, and so, I did two books for them in I think it 99 299 Three, and then they shut down Jake Logan for a while. And so I stopped writing them. I mean, it was a it was a sweet gig. I mean, you'd write like, 120 page 150 page book, it take you like two weeks, and they pay you a flat $5,000 which was good. It was good back then. It's good now. I mean, but you know, I could have done that all year, you know, writing you know, those Jake Logan books, but they, they decided to kind of suspend it for a while. And when they finally brought it back. That spot was already failed by somebody. So I got those two Jake Logan's in and that was it for me. Right and Jake Logan.

Michael David Wilson 1:11:34

Yeah, yeah, that's a nice pay day. And from what you know, I've heard from other ghost writers now. I mean, unless you're with an absolutely massive publishing house, you're gonna be hard pushed to find a ghost writing gig where you write it in two weeks and get $5,000 that you know, even for now, so, so back then when $5,000 was worth more, goddamn.

Ronald Kelly 1:12:06

I'd love to get into doing your like, you know, I know that. There's horror writers who who write like the movie Tyrion novels. I know Tim Wagner. And they Castro she just did an alien. Mary Sanjay Barney just did an alien book. So yeah, I mean, that, you know, I'd love to have, you know, a connection where I could play in somebody else's, you know, playground like that. And, and, you know, I got to them. Tim just did like, Halloween, you know, Halloween kills? I think he did the novelization of so. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't be adverse to do you know, a novel tie in if I had the opportunity. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 1:13:01

Yeah, that'd be interesting to just kind of compare those different experiences. Because, I mean, when you're doing something, you know, under a different pen name, as you were doing as Jake Logan. I mean, there's gonna be, you know, quite a Bible and the restrictions there. I'd imagine when you're doing something like Halloween kills, which obviously, is the official movie tie in? Yeah, there's not that much room in terms of flexibility. But then when it comes to the alien tie ins from V Castro and Mary San Giovanni, I think they do have more flexibility there. So I just think it'd be interesting to hear, you know, how, how creatively one can flex kind of doing that.

Ronald Kelly 1:13:58

Now, V V, let me read the vasculitis before before it came out. And I loved I loved it. I mean, that was one of the most unique characters in this alien sacral you know, aliens and, and she really expanded her, you know, her backstory and everything. So, you know, you know, I've really enjoyed it. You know, I know people's gonna enjoy it when it's officially released.

Michael David Wilson 1:14:28

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's, it's no surprise, you know, the Wii has written this as well. I mean, when you look at the other books that she's put out, it is just a perfect match. It is. Did you did you read it? Yeah. With a blob in mind, or was this kind of? Yeah.

Ronald Kelly 1:14:53

Actually, I wrote. I was putting together a piece for a A reward magazine. It's 10 the 10 creature feature not hard novels that you need to read for Halloween. And so I was going, you know, I picked like, Kings it for penny wise and and some other you know, I think I picked Grady Hendricks southern book club. You know we had that, you know vampires, you know for vampires. Yeah. Stephen Graham Jones mongrels for werewolves and, and I really wanted to put aliens there. Yeah. And I found out that V was right had written that. And so I asked her, I said, Can I read this, you know, up front? Because I want to make sure that it was what I wanted to include in the top 10 list, and it made it you know, I think she did a wonderful job. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:15:55

yeah. Do you do much freelance work for Rue Morgue? Or is this kind of No,

Ronald Kelly 1:16:00

that's the first one. Actually. Jared with stitching sky as a PR firm that's helping me promote southern fried and horrified and one of the PR ladies, she's been getting me these. These assignments, maybe I wrote one for hopefully, that will be picked up by Publishers Weekly. It's like a soapbox. article about how you know, have were lost my writing career and came back, you know, and so I've wrote that. And then she said, you know, we'll read more, you know, would you like to write? So I've read Morgan. And so I believe it's going to be on the online magazine. So I wrote that. And I may be writing a piece for Writer's Digest, too. So that yeah, that that kind of opened up. Some doors for me that I haven't had a chance to do is write for some major magazines and stuff.

Michael David Wilson 1:17:12

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm wondering, as you're doing this to tie in with the promotion of Southern Fried, horrified. Are these like paid writing gigs? Or is that an arrangement where it's kind of not paid? Because you're getting some promotional benefit from it? Or does it vary from publication to publication?

Ronald Kelly 1:17:35

Currently, I think it's just to help promote the book. No, get my name out there. You're more. Yeah. Yeah, get people familiar with me more, because, you know, you know, I was gone 10 years, and then that time, I mean, a whole generation of her readers had changed. And when I came back in 2006, a lot of people didn't know who I was, they'd never heard of me, because a lot of people hadn't read the zebra books, and they hadn't read the anthologies like Shark rock and hot blooded I was in and so it's been kind of a struggle for Ron Kelly, to, to make it back to the point I am now because, you know, for a lot of years, you know, people didn't know who I was, you know, it was, you know, that's why it is with, you know, generations of readers, sometimes they, they get caught up in the current horror writers and everything and, and just doesn't, they don't look back at the history of the genre, and, and who blazed the trails, and who wrote the foreword, and all that and, but, you know, I say, the, you know, is shifted, I believe, a lot of us old dogs are getting more respect. Like, I'm, I'm 63 years old. So I've been around a while and, and, you know, I'm just having the time of our life right now, you know, interacting with, you know, reader, new readers and old readers who raised me when I was with Zebra and all that. So,

Michael David Wilson 1:19:13

yeah. Now let's fantastic to hear that you're having such a great time at the moment. And I mean, I think in terms of reading habits, we certainly impress upon people the importance of reading, widely of reading diversely and of course included in that is kind of knowing your horror history, read those who are not just horror history, I should say your kind of literary history learning about those who came before you and really just immersing yourself in fiction and in horror, and I think a lot of people are doing that and you're seeing what what were the 10 needs before what has worked, what perhaps, doesn't work. And it's about not only knowing who came before you, but knowing what you want as both a writer and a reader. And I think fortunately, because you with the internet with podcasts and websites, we can pull out this kind of immersive, not immersive this plethora of information.

Ronald Kelly 1:20:30

Right? Yeah, I've seen seems like podcasts have had a great impact on it. Because, you know, you and Bob and a lot of other podcast hosts and a plank or, or, you know, have a diverse amount of people, you know, in the horror industry and in other genres to and it's just, you know, it's, it's introducing, you know, Rogers, who, you know, maybe people have, you know, slipped through the cracks with some people's, you know, rating that, you know, they rediscover people and they discovered, you know, some of the old books and stuff like that. So, you know, I think I've done a great job. I mean, I've been listening to you, you know, This Is Horror for years, and I've, I've discovered some new favorite authors and stuff to you.

Michael David Wilson 1:21:31

I have that's wonderful to hear. And I mean, it's been interesting as both a Podcast Producer and just as a reader and a friend to see the landscape of the horror fiction podcast world change, because it goes when this has already started. I mean, I formed it because there was this gap. There were podcasts that I enjoyed, but they were horror movie podcasts, and they were book podcasts, but there wasn't a horror fiction podcast. And I thought, well, if I want it and there isn't one, I guess I'm gonna create it. Now, of course, I think you know that there was a fantastic period where we're alongside This Is Horror, there was the horror show with Brian Keene, I miss it solely. It was such an incredible show. But then, you know, we've seen kind of other horror fiction, podcasts, we've seen the lights of ladies that have fright and boots in the freezer, and we saw encased and, you know, just as I think, or have a horror fiction podcaster dropping off, then other ones kind of turn up and enlarge to fill in the gaps. And I think it's a really exciting time right now and that there are a number of notable good kind of horror fiction podcasts. I actually so many, that I wouldn't even be able to shout out to all of them but a number that have, you know, I think worthy of praising my dad headspace, and you cast more souls. And there's a fellow Brit, who is hosting talking scared.

Ronald Kelly 1:23:29

Yes, I've heard. Yeah, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:23:31

sorry. It's an exciting time that there's a new one. In fact, that has just popped up terrifying tomes of terror. I have not had much chance to listen to that. But you know, I've seen the host chance on social media and not only you know, is the podcast host, but he's a great promoter of horror. He's a bookseller, too. So it's exciting and you know, that the more competition in inverted commas that there is for This Is Horror. And indeed for others, you know, the more it just it just encourages us to bring a game so I think it's it's a very, a very good thing indeed.

Ronald Kelly 1:24:21

Yeah, I believe you know, I believe it bridges the gap the gaps between the horror generations you know, you know, when when you can pull up one here, Joe Lansdale, and, and Edward Leigh, and some of the older horror writers and everything and then you have your new you have your generation your yet Brian Keene generation and all that and then you have your new generation you would say no, polio and, and Haley prybar And in writers like that, you know, it's just, you know, it's great to have that diversity where you can see everybody's, you know, side of the genre.

Michael David Wilson 1:25:12

Yeah. Yeah. And of course, while we're talking about different podcasts another one that's a little bit unique that I've got a shout out is a course, ghoulish, which is hosted by Max boof. And that's not like a straight horror podcast because there's like m elements of comedy embedded in it. And it's so so topic specific. So I know that when Bob was on, you know, it was about elevated horror, though of course, with Max imbuing these conversations with a sense of comedy. He did start talking about horror that occurs in elevators for a number of minutes during that episode, which apparently isn't what Bob meant by elevator. Have you listened to ghoulish Ronald?

Ronald Kelly 1:26:08

No, I haven't had a chance. I'm kind of discovering all the different podcasts and kind of searching them out and trying them and, you know, listen to them, you know, since I've worked at still working full time I listen to my commute. And, you know, I try to I try, I try to fit as many in as I can, but some of them kind of slip the, my fingers. And so yeah, I'll certainly check that out.

Michael David Wilson 1:26:42

Yeah, yeah. One of the early episodes was with Brian Keene. So perhaps as a fan and friend of Brian Keene and his podcast, you might want to listen to that one. And it's particularly hilarious, too,

Ronald Kelly 1:26:58

I'm sure Degas.

Michael David Wilson 1:27:03

Thank you so much for listening to part one, and a conversation will run or Kelly. Join us again next time for the second and final part. But if you would like to get that ahead of the crowd, if you'd like to get every episode ahead of the crowd, then become our patreon@patreon.com forward slash, This Is Horror. Not only do you get early bird access to each and every episode, but you get exclusive podcasts, including the patrons only q&a sessions, story on bots, the horror podcast on the craft of writing, and the video cast on camera off record. You would also be helping me out immensely. I'm going through something at the moment. I've been going through the most horrible time in my life for the past 15 months, and your support would be invaluable. So if you can pledge to This Is Horror Podcast, please. This is the time to do so. patreon.com forward slash This Is Horror. We've already recorded some fascinating conversations with Jason pod Jin sciama More, and Tyler Jones. And we have some conversations lined up with the likes of Siena Palacio, Jonathan Jan's and Brian Asman, to name just a few. So head over to patreon.com forward slash This Is Horror, and see if it's a good fit for you. Okay, before I wrap up, a little bit of an advert break.

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Michael David Wilson 1:29:55

Now if you enjoy the podcast, I would love it if you You could leave a review on Apple podcasts. Because even though we've got all these listeners, we have not had many reviews in the past year. Now, it might be, you know, a lot of regular listeners have already left on in the 10 years previous. But if you haven't, and you do enjoy the show, please let us know. You know, we love reading your reviews. And it does help with the Apple podcast algorithms. Now if you're not into Apple podcast, and leave us some stars over on Spotify, I don't believe you can write reviews on that platform yet. But you can sprinkle a few stars our way. I prefer five, but you give us the stars that you think we deserve. Now I have a new review over on Apple podcasts us from pale rock TMA. And it is try audit squizzy illuminating and always a lot of fun. So the longer review and this is so complimentary Psych. I'm not going to read all of it out. But this is just great. And I mean amongst the highlights. I have my favorite guests and you will too. I have found so much great writing through this podcast too. As Michael and Bob and everyone else are legitimate and strong advocates for the community. And after just a few lessons, you will have some solid additions to your to be read pile. I don't think it is a stretch to say the podcast has shown me works and introduced me to writers who have very supremely impacted my life and who I am as a reader and writer. Listen. And of course you are listening or you wouldn't have heard this says thank you to you for listening. Thank you to hey all rap MA for leaving that review. And hey with that said, I'll see you in the next episode for part two with Ronald Kelly. But until then, take care yourselves. Be good to one another. Read horror. Keep on writing and have a great, great day.