TIH 605: Wesley Southard on One for the Road, Closing Costs, and Trevor Henderson Art

In this podcast, Wesley Southard talks about One for the Road, Closing Costs, Trevor Henderson art, and much more.

About Wesley Southard

Wesley Southard is the two-time Splatterpunk Award-Winning and Imadjinn Award-Winning author of The Betrayed, Closing Costs, One for the Road, Resisting Madness, Slaves to Gravity, Cruel Summer, Where the Devil Waits, The Final Gate, Try Again, They Mostly Come at Night, Disasterpieces, and The Better to Eat You With, as well as numerous short stories in various markets. Several of his works have also been translated into Italian and Spanish. He is a graduate of the Atlanta Institute of Music and he currently lives in South Central Pennsylvania with his wife and son.

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Mayhem Sam by J.D. Graves

Mayhem Sam is a rip-roaring tall-tale of revenge that drags a coffin of stolen confederate gold across the hellscape of Reconstruction Texas, the red dirt plains of Oklahoma, and explodes at the top of a Colorado mountain. Mayhem Sam is the true story of Texas’s tallest tale and its deepest, darkest legend.

The Girl in the Video by Michael David Wilson, narrated by RJ Bayley

Listen to The Girl in the Video on Audible in the US here and in the UK here.

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Michael David Wilson 0:28
Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson, and every episode, alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella, we chat with the world's best writers about writing, life, lessons, creativity and much more. Today we are talking to Wesley Southard for the second part of our conversation, and we got together with Wesley to talk about his latest book, his fantastic collection, the better to eat you with now. Wesley is a two time splatter punk, award winning author of a number of stories and books, including The betrayed closing costs, one for the road resisting madness, where the devil waits the final gate, try again. And of course, the afore mentioned, the better to eat you with several of his works have also been translated into Italian and Spanish. He is a graduate of the Atlanta Institute of Music, and He currently lives in south central Pennsylvania with his wife and son. So this was a fantastic conversation with Wesley. I think you're going to really enjoy it. I think if you haven't read any of his fiction, then you should absolutely give it a shot, the better to eat you with is a fantastic place, because there are a number of novellas contained within. But before we get to the conversation, a quick advert break

Andrew Love 2:15
in 1867 the young Samantha gray marries the infamous Captain Jakes unleashing a series of brutal horrors in this epic splatter Western from Death's Head press mayhem Sam by J D, grays is a rip roaring tall tale of revenge, drags a coffin full of gold across the hellscape of reconstruction Texas and explodes at the top of a mountain. You better read this one with lights on.

RJ Bayley 2:45
It was as if the video had unzipped my skin, slunk inside my tapered flesh, and become one with me.

Bob Pastorella 2:54
From the creator of distance, horror comes a new nightmare for the digital age. The Girl in the Video by Michael David Wilson, after a teacher receives a weirdly arousing video, his life descends in a paranoia and obsession. More videos follow, each containing information no stranger could possibly know, but who's sending them and what do they want? The answers may destroy everything and everyone he loves. The Girl in the Video is the ring meets fatal attraction for an iPhone generation, available now in paperback, ebook and audio.

Michael David Wilson 3:24
Okay, with that said, Here it is. It is Wesley Southard on This Is Horror. I mean, in terms of the things we're talking about here, there's so many different facets and topics, and I've, I've been trying to keep my thoughts at the forefront of my mind, but I mean, you spoke about social media, and we've kind of spoke a little bit about this before, but there is a tendency for us as Human beings to compare ourselves to other people, and unfortunately, the tendency is to always compare ourselves to the person who we perceive rightly or wrongly is just that little bit better than us or is a little bit higher on the ladder. We're never comparing ourselves to the person who's not doing as well as us. So I think we do have to be mindful of the dangers of social media, because one is not reality anyway. What they are putting out, what everyone is putting out, is a curated and probably idealized version of their own life. It's the best of it's the greatest hits. Oh,

Wesley Southard 4:39
absolutely. And I know, sorry, go ahead.

Michael David Wilson 4:44
No, no, please. Oh,

Wesley Southard 4:46
no. I've been trying to find that balance of social media of how much to post about my personal life as as opposed to how much I, you know, self promote and I. Again, I've been doing this for close to 20 years, and I still can't find it. You know, there's some you know, for the longest time, I tried to follow the the the early years of Brian Keene method of of posting damn near everything that I was doing in my personal life all the time. Well, then when you're doing that, you're kind of letting in people. You're letting the general public into your life, and maybe you're doing it too much. And then that becomes people start, you know, asking about stuff in your personal life, and that makes you uncomfortable, or things like that. Or people start asking, Well, what do you do for your job, or what do you do for your work? And you're like, I'm not gonna tell you what I do for my work, you know. And then people start doing things like that that kind of make you uncomfortable, that you don't want to talk about. But then, you know, it really worked for him, but it's that, you know, that never really worked for me. But then I have a lot of friends who are in the indie world that are huge, like they're big in the indie world, they never post about their personal lives at all. They are self promotion machines. All they do is self promote every single day, and they blew up over it. And I'm like, Okay, I tried that too, and that doesn't work for me either. So I'm like, where's the balance? That's the hard thing is, how much do you let the public into your personal life, and how much do you self promote? And where's the balance? That's the balance is the hardest part. But like, different things work for different people, and I don't know. I guess you just got to find your thing, and hopefully it works. You know, I'm on every social media platform, and personally, I've found that Facebook, sadly, has been the one that's worked for me the most. You know, tick tock has not worked for me. Instagram has kind of come and gone for me. A little bit blue sky seems to be okay. Twitter never worked for me. But somehow, you know, Facebook has been the one that's, that's, that's worked for me the most as far as like gaining an audience. So I don't know, it just everybody's different with all social medias, so you just kind of hope for the best out there. Unfortunately, yeah,

Michael David Wilson 7:15
I think the rule is that there is no overarching rule, and you just have to do what works for you and what makes you feel good and what feels authentic. So, right? Yeah, I've dabbled with loads of things, but you know, if you start making a tick tock video and you think, you know what this, this isn't me, or this feels so fake and phony, then you know, don't do it. If sharing about your personal life makes you feel uncomfortable, don't do that. If self promoting makes you feel uncomfortable, then try and find a way to do it that you know you are comfortable, because there's so many different ways. There are more, subtler approaches. You don't have to be so overt, right? And I think the caveat too, is to do what works for you at that time in your life. I mean, certainly, ever since I got divorced, I've been way more guarded about my personal life. I don't share as much as I used to, and that's just what I'm comfortable with at the moment. And in this season of my life, I tend to find too that I don't make any absolute, concrete rules. You know, I don't say I'm not going to mention my personal life, but I am certainly holding back more. But, you know, I try to do things with an authenticity and an honesty that if someone were to ask a question, you know, as long as it's not unreasonable, I'll do my best to to answer that, but just being comfortable that is what it comes down to.

Wesley Southard 9:09
Yeah, I had to kind of find a comfortability with being able to post about my child online. I don't mind posting my child online. It's fun. I like people seeing him because he's cute and makes me happy. But I I kind of, I kind of pulled back a bit a couple years ago, right after he was born. It my wife and I jokingly started calling our son meatball, because I didn't want to put his actual name online. And I don't even remember the whole story about why we started calling him meatball, but we started calling him meatball, and that's what we started calling him online, is like, his, his name or whatever, and, and, you know, that was us thing, that was a her, and I thing. But then when I had, and, I mean, no. Have no offense to anybody that did this. I'm not I'm not shitting on anybody that did this. I don't mean no disrespect to any of my readers that have done this. But when I started having readers coming up to me at conventions and asking how meatball is, then I started going, Oh, it's not a my it's not us thing anymore. It's an everybody thing. And then it kind of lost that, that magic and that fun of of that name. So then we just kind of just dropped the name, at least I did anyway, yeah, you just, you got to kind of find your comfortability, especially when it comes to family members, I know, for years and years and years, keen. Was keen. Was very, very adamant about not putting his son's name or even his picture online a lot, which is funny. He, you know, he used to harp on me about not doing the same thing. And then right after my son was born, he came over and took a picture with him and then posted my son's name online immediately. And I'm like, Thanks, Brian. I really appreciate that. After you spent years telling me to don't do that, you go and do that for me. So awesome. But you know, it is what it is.

Bob Pastorella 11:19
Yeah, I don't, I don't have any children, but I'm, like, extremely guarded on social media, especially like where I work. I don't one. I don't I want to be known as a writer on social media. I will complain about my day job, especially in vague terms. But I don't really, you know, I don't. I fear irrationally, probably. But no, no, the people are crazy that if I post about something about where I work or who I work for, and then I come off and say something that pisses someone off, then how do I know that they can't find me, you know, like in real space, right? You know. And it'd be like that, that would, that would probably make me get off of social media, you know. That'd be the one thing it's like. Well, Bob used to be on social media until, till that thing happened at work, you know. But so that's why I don't, you know, I'll vaguely post it in, of course, if you follow me on social media, you know, I don't. I don't like corporate America, the corporate world. So usually it's in vague of how silly and how stupid they do, things like giving me part of my commission early as a Christmas bonus to take it off the commission check later, you know, fuck you. But anyway, um, you know what I mean, and so, you know, but I can, I can imagine, with, with the child, yeah, that, that that pressure is is 10 100 times worse, because you want to share the joy of your kid and you can't because people are crazy. Yeah, and it's, I don't know that's, I cannot imagine that.

Wesley Southard 13:17
Yeah, I haven't had any, I haven't had any, like, scary incidences or anything yet. I just the the name thing once it's once other people started asking about it. Then I was like, Oh, okay. Like, I said, like, like, the name is kind of like, it kind of left us and became a thing online. And I was just like, all right, this, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, no offense to anybody. And again, I'm not, I'm not giving shit to anybody that did it. I'm just saying, like, what's this once, like, that fun thing between you and your wife stops being that. Then I was just like, Okay, I'm dropping this. Like, this is, I'm not using the name anymore. So, you know, whatever.

Michael David Wilson 13:58
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a deeply personal thing. You know, what we do and don't say particularly about our children. Like, I, yeah, people know I have a daughter, but I I don't say that much really, you know, because then I guess the same with your son. I mean, she's not of an age where she can really make a decision whether she wants to be online or not, right? So, you know, I don't want to take that privacy away from her. But yeah, like Bob says, It's a tough one, because at the same time, you want to share that joy. So, yeah, yeah. I guess I mentioned how, when, when applicable, you know, when it's relevant to something that we're talking about, but then I'm not sharing too much outside of that, yeah, but let's jump back to the better to eat you with the brand new book. And you were saying before you know, it is a tough situation you're in because you're trying to, obviously appeal to your current audience, but you're also writing in a mode that perhaps they're not so familiar with. I think, as I think I've said already that this book is absolutely fantastic, and I think one of the things that is particularly special about it is you've got three great stories that all showcase completely different facets of horror. Also they showcase different times in your own writing journey. So I think if there are people listening and they haven't read your fiction, this is the starting point. This is the book to pick up. Because then once you've read all three, you're then gonna know, okay, well, which of your other books do they want to jump into after? So, you know, in that respect, actually putting threesome out with another two stories is an easy sell, because, well, it's your own adventure for the reader. And you mentioned the Trevor Henderson art. How on earth did that come about? It is a very striking cover. And I also noticed when I went to Amazon to really look at it, I think on the Google image search, they'd put a kind of disclaimer like, Oh, this is a gory cover. Or are you sure you want to click through to see this. I have never had that before. Okay, you're looking perplexed. So you didn't know I

Wesley Southard 16:47
haven't seen I haven't seen that. As far as Trevor goes. Trevor is a phenomenal artist. I love Trevor's stuff. I if I wrote more of the stuff that his artwork would fit for I would use him all the time, but like, his stuff doesn't necessarily always fit the stuff that I want to do, but his stuff fits, like the collections that I put out, like I put out a collection a couple years ago through cemetery gates media called, oh my god, I forgot the title of My own book. Oh, they mostly come at night. And when we were looking for a cover artist, I knew that I wanted to use Trevor's art. Some was something of Trevor's, and I pitched that to the publisher, and he really liked the idea, too. So he got in touch with Trevor, and Trevor kind of gave us a a here's the ones that are available, you know, I so we looked through them, and I got with a couple of other writer friends of mine, and we really narrowed down, like the one that would work the best, which is the one that's on there. And I really love it. And then when I was putting together this novella collection, I knew I wanted to use another piece of his, because I was looking for kind of a tone. And I remember seeing that particular piece on his Instagram. And I remember looking through his Instagram before, and I was like, I want to find something of his that I can use, that might be available. And when I saw that cover or that piece of art, I thought, Holy shit, that has to be it. That has to be it. So I kind of screenshot it and sent it to a couple people, and I'm like, what would you think if, like, if I asked Trevor about this one, and pretty much, like, unanimously, like, the other authors, like, you have to get that one. Like, like, see if that one's available today, before that's gone. And that's exactly what I did. I finally, I eventually emailed Trevor and was like, hey, you know, we worked together before, is this available? And it was like, yeah, it is. I was like, God, thank God. So yeah, that I love that piece of art for that. I love his art in general. But the two pieces that are on two of my books right now are just, I love it. I love it. They're so cool looking. They're so striking. And they definitely get attention when they're on a table at a convention, for sure, and it's, it's funny, because I've actually had people will come up from like, across the room and they go, they'll just look at the book, and they're like, I'm not a reader. But is that Trevor Anderson? Is that Trevor Henderson artwork? And it's funny because like, his artwork is super popular, not just amongst like readers and, like, authors, but like, he's very widely known, like, very widely known, and his stuff has shown up everywhere. I mean, he created, like, the siren head monster that, like a lot of people online know, that went viral. But he's worked with, like, movies, and he's written books and stuff, and he's put his artwork is just so well known, and it's so funny that I'll have, I'll be at like, a horror convention somewhere, vending my books, and I'll have someone come up across the room and go, Oh my god, is that Trevor Henderson artwork? That's just how noticeable his stuff is. So yeah, I love his work. If I could use him more, I would. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 19:56
I imagine there'll be a lot of people listening who. Trevor Henderson fans and perhaps who are also interested in having some of his artwork on their books. So I mean, if you're willing to share, I'd be interested to know, I mean, how did the agreement work? Because in this situation, rather than commissioning from the start, you found a piece of art that is perfect for your book. So then are you kind of signing like a simple licensing agreement? Does that give you exclusivity? Is there a kind of period of time? I don't know how much of this you and Trevor a comfortable sharing, but I certainly know it would be interesting for our listeners. I

Wesley Southard 20:46
you know what I don't remember? To be honest, I think I messaged him through his website, and that's how I got his email. And I just asked him if this piece was available, and he said, Yeah, and then he just gave me the price, and I paid him, and then he sent me the high res file for it. And then when I was getting the book put together, I gave the artwork to the person who did the layout, and they created the type, the typeset on the cover and stuff. As far as, like, exclusivity, I actually that's a really good question. I don't think I signed anything with Trevor, so I'm not positive if, like, I don't, I don't own the piece. As far as I know, like, I have a couple of pieces of artwork that I have on some of my books that I actually do outright own. But as far as that one, I don't know that's that's actually a question I should ask him. I've just never, I've never asked because I kind of feel like maybe I don't actually own it. It's just kind of just for this book. I don't know that's, I've never even thought about that question, but that's, that's actually a really good question. I don't know. I never signed anything with him, necessarily, not that I can remember. Yeah, I don't know that's something I'd have to ask him. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 22:05
I think it's always a good thing to consider. I remember it was quite a while back now, maybe over 10 years, but there was a bit of controversy, because two books came out with the same cover. So obviously, the the artwork had been licensed to both of them, but without exclusivity.

Unknown Speaker 22:30
And I think I might know,

Michael David Wilson 22:33
yeah, yeah. In terms of the artists that I've worked with, I mean, they're normally very transparent about it. So either I'm buying that artwork outright, and you know, that's that, or if it's not exclusive, then they have standard terms, standard terms, which, as an author or publisher, I can negotiate, and you know, we can see if we can change that a little bit. So, yeah, you can have things where it's non exclusive, but then contractually, maybe you have one year, or you have five years, or 10 years, or whatever you agree of exclusivity, or it may be non exclusive, but there cannot be a competing book with the same artwork, right? And then that will be between you and the artist to decide. What does that mean? Does it mean in the same genre? Does it mean in the same marketplace? And I mean often it would mean it can't be on a book that's also English language, so they could potentially license it right to a foreign market place if there wasn't a conflict. And often the artist will also be like, Look as a courtesy, they would contact you. They would talk you through what is going on, rather than just surprise. Now, Josh maleman Has your cover too, and

Wesley Southard 24:08
guess what? He's gonna outsell you 10 fold. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 24:12
yeah. When they don't need to state that to me, that's a given. It doesn't need to be said.

Wesley Southard 24:19
One of the one of the pieces, one of the artworks that I actually own outright is the cover for my novel Cruel Summer, that was done by Alex McVay. Was originally it was originally published through thunderstorm books. And then I loved the artwork so much that I asked thunderstorm if I could read like, rebuy the artwork from Alex and put it as the paperback. And you know, Paul was cool with that, and that's basically stayed the cover for that paperback for the last like, five years or so. And a couple of years ago, Brian Keene and some. Friends put together a bunch of money and actually bought me the original piece, like I have the original painted, hand painted artwork of that in a frame. I haven't been able to put it up on my walls yet in my new house. It's in my closet right now, unfortunately, but I have, like, outright, the original piece of artwork that now is mine, that I own. So, yeah, that's pretty cool.

Michael David Wilson 25:23
Yeah, yeah, that is an amazing piece of art. And to be honest, the better to eat you with artwork and Cruel Summer. They almost feel like they're they're part of the same collection. They have a very similar vibe, and they're both they're both very striking. They're both very horrifying. There's no question that you write some dark shit if you're seeing either of those images. I'm

Wesley Southard 25:49
very, very, very anal about the artwork that I put on my books. I I like good artwork on books, I like being able to pick up something with something, you know, that makes you want to pick up a book, like, like artwork that makes you want to pick up something. I do a lot of conventions, and I do a lot of book shows around the country, and I get approached constantly at shows and people telling me, like, holy crap. Like, your artwork stands out like a lot at these shows. And, yeah, I just, I always say, like, do you know, judging you don't judge a book by its cover, doesn't that's such a stupid thing to say. Like, I get it. I get what it means. But are you gonna buy an ugly book? Are you gonna go to a store and buy an ugly book? Probably not. Like, I don't know, artworks always been very important to me. It makes that's the first thing people see, and that's the thing that makes them want to pick it up, especially if you're trying to grow an audience, if you're on the road all the time, like I am. It is, it's, it's kind of like, it's like peacocking, basically, you it gets the attention immediately, and it makes people want to pick it up and check it out and hopefully buy the book. But, but I'm not, you know, I just artworks always been very important to me, and I think that a lot of that stems from, you know, what we talked about earlier, about, you know, growing up in in the time of the early 2000s of the small press, generation of of the delirium books and the bloodletting, the necessary evils and the gauntlet and thunderstorm and Sideshow press and cemetery dance and And, and all those and subterranean, you know, these, these presses that were putting out these insanely gorgeous book covers, that these custom artwork and hand painted, hand drawn stuff that was just meant to be eye catching, like these books were meant to get your attention and to make you want To spend 50, 6070, $100 on a book. You know, I love really good art on a book cover, and it just because it makes you want to pick it up and look at it, and it makes you want to flip through it and read it. And that's, and that's, I have kind of put that into my own stuff that I try to spend. I try to spend, you know, sometimes a decent amount of money on covers, because I want, I want to have good covers, and I think, I think it's important personally, but that's just me. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 28:33
me too, absolutely. I mean, I spend so much time trying to get the story, right? That I don't want to, kind of, you know, put out a substandard cover, yeah, yeah. Just like, if I'm gonna get a tattoo, I'm gonna invest in a good artist. It's a piece that I'm getting. It's gotta be the same with the book cover, because, like you say, that is your calling card. That is your first impression. And it's so clear from the artwork of your books that you have that same mindset, you know. The the unifying feature is all books have fucking amazing artwork, you know. And I mean, goodness, if you even look at one for the road, and there are three different versions of that. I mean, the the kind of original one I believe the dead I press so graphic, so bloody, and it also, it has something so Jack Ketchum about it. I mean, you can't really, yeah, you can't avoid seeing that comparison, even down to the font that is used. It reminds me of a number of Jack Ketchum books that I've seen, which I think is, is an apt comparison. But then you look at. You know, you've, you've got the Dunwich edition, one of your, your foreign editions, and, wow, that that is amazing, but a different vibe here, almost something a little Stephen King or Spielberg about

Wesley Southard 30:16
that was, that, was that the one with the the big truck on the cover? Yeah, yes, yeah, that book, that book hasn't been in print, that that version hasn't been in print in a long time. But yeah, yeah, I've actually kind of forgot about that cover. Yeah, I haven't seen that cover forever. Well,

Michael David Wilson 30:31
good reads has not forgotten about that. Good Reason forgotten about the thunderstorm edition either. Yeah, is so ominous, is like something is going to go down. And, I mean, as we're talking about, you know, the cover art, why don't we talk about one for the road? As I do want to at least touch on the three stories in this book, and my goodness, I mean, this is probably your love letter to heavy metal. And as with a number of your stories, it, it starts off, you know, innocuously almost, and okay, we're going along until boom, now, now something has happened, and you dial it up to 11, and then 12 and 13, and we just keep going until there is a very WTF, bizarro ending. And it's like, okay, yeah, I am normally good at predicting things a certain element I did not predict. I loved it, and I was laughing. I always like that. That takes some bulls to end the story with that. Yeah,

Wesley Southard 31:56
one of the road is such a strange book. So that was the third book that I wrote, so I wrote the betrayed then closing costs, then one for the road. So the first two were self published, and one for the road was published through dead I press. So one for the road started out basically as like, I want to write something where there are absolutely no rules whatsoever. So if you look at any supernatural story, it could be movies, it could be books, whatever. You know, your supernatural element has to follow a certain set of rules. Like, like, what can the supernatural entity do? What can it not do? Like, what's the world that it lives in? You know? What? What are the rules of this world? Like, blah, blah, blah. I said I want to write something with absolutely no rules, anything goes whatsoever. And that's what I tried to create with this. Like, that story really stemmed from my my life is like my early life as a musician and going to music school and being around musicians all the time, and a lot of those people in that band, maybe not the singer. The singer was the singer was made up more than any than any other character, but like, you know, the guitar player, the drummer, the bass player, those were all people that I went to school with very, very specifically. Yeah, I just, I wanted to write something so weird and off the wall and strange, and I wanted to see where my, my my brain could go with it. And it just kept getting weirder and weirder, almost almost to bizarro territory, which is strange, because I'm not a big bizarro guy, but it got very bizarro, especially like the the concert out in the square. I think maybe you were, maybe that's, I think that's kind of what you were hinting at before. I remember when I was writing it, I was talking about the book to one of my really good friends out here, one of my best friends, filmmaker and writer, Mike Lombardo. I remember pitching him this book and talking to him about it. And I remember him just and he and this guy, if you know who Mike is, is, so he comes with the craziest things anyway. He's a movie maker and a writer, and he has the wackiest, craziest, most off the wall shit ideas, like, could you ever hear in your life? Like, if they're hilarious and they're amazing and they're so original and so creative. And I remember pitching him this, and him just looking at me like, I don't get it. I don't I don't understand any of this. Like, I don't get it, write it, obviously, write it, but I don't understand what you're talking about. Like, none of this makes sense to me. So after I wrote it, he was the first person I sent it to, and I was like, I probably won't hear from him for a couple weeks, whatever. It's fine. I heard from him. The next day, he called me and. About it for an hour, and I couldn't even get a word in. He was just going on and on and on and on about how much he loved it. He's like, I get it now. I get about everything you were going for. I understand it, which is funny, because more often than not, when I'm, like, pitching him an idea about something, he's just looks at me so like, I don't really understand what you're going for. But sure, like, do it, and then he'll read and go. I totally understand now it makes complete sense. It seems to happen with me a lot, but he made, actually, he actually made a couple of suggestions that I put in the book that made a few scenes better. But, yeah, I remember after I finished it, I was just like, I guess I'm just gonna put this out on my own again. I didn't really want to. I wanted to start going into to traditional publishing, you know, even if it meant, like, just publishing through the indie presses. So obviously, at the time, I was a huge fan of Dead Eye press. I mean, they were publishing Brian stuff. They were publishing Edward Lee, you know, rat, James White, some of Hayes stuff, like dead. I if, if people don't remember, like dead, it was huge for a long time, you know, in the early to early to mid 2000s I mean, they were massive for a while, like, they were very influential and very popular. And I remember, for like, the first time they had opened up to open submissions, and I was like, Oh, my God, I actually have something for this. Like, I have to send this to them. Like, I don't know if anything will happen, but I have to send this to them. So I did, and I didn't hear anything for a long time. And then I got, I don't know if I should say this or not, but Brian at scares that care, that year, scares that care weekend was like, Hey, I I heard from Jeff Burke about your book. And I was like, oh, and Jeff Burke was the one that was running dead night before. And he goes, I go, Oh, he goes, I think you got this. And I was like, Fuck you man. Like, don't lie to me. Don't mess with me. Like, I don't need that right now. And he's like, No, I think you just, just keep waiting. I think you'll hear something. I was like, okay, whatever I try not to think about because I was like, he's got to be messing with me. And then, like, a couple of weeks later, I heard from Jeff, and he was like, Hey, I love this book. I think you're you. I think you're you're making it into, like, the final round or whatever, of choosing, of what books I'm going to choose. And then I will never, for the life of me. Forget this. I remember I was working night shift at my job that I work at now, but I don't work night shift there anymore, but I was working night shift at the time. I had literally just pulled into my parking spot, put the car in park. I looked at my phone, and I saw I had an email, and the email was from Jeff Burke, saying I made it like I'm there. They're accepting the book. And I just started crying. I cried so fucking hard. And the first person I call, I didn't call my wife, I didn't call my parents, I didn't call my sister, I called Keene and and I was crying on the phone, I told him, and he goes, I'm so happy for you, man. I'm so happy. That's awesome. I'm so proud of you. Don't quit your day job. And I was like, no, no, I know I'm not gonna quit. He goes, No, seriously, don't quit your day job. This is just one book. And I was like, I understand. I understand. But as weird as one for the road is as kind of unconventional as that book is. That book somehow, kind of helped launch, like whatever career I have now. It's been published in like three different languages. It's, it's sold a decent amount. It's, I won a splatter punk award for that book, and it helped get me my next publishing contract after that, which, you know, snowballed and helped me get other publishing contracts. So somehow, one of the weirdest books ever written, kind of helped launch, you know, my writing career in a weird way. And as much as I don't write like that anymore, and I probably won't ever write anything like that again, I am extremely grateful for what that book has done for me, and I'm glad people still discover and I'm glad people still enjoy it. It's fun. It's a lot of fun. It's a weird book. It's, it's, it's a weird, weird book, but it's a lot of fun. And I'm glad people, I'm glad people still really enjoy it. It makes me smile.

Michael David Wilson 39:31
Yeah, see that one? I absolutely understand why you put it as a second story. I mean, yeah, this is one way. You almost need to have read another story to prepare yourself for the journey that you're about to go on. Yeah, and I'm glad that Keene has been so supportive. I mean, particularly when in that book, the band talks about, Oh, you. Naming themselves for gods. And you say, Oh well, that just sounds like the name of a huge theara book. So Brian took that in good spirits. Oh yeah.

Wesley Southard 40:10
He always does. He always does. Yeah, Brian. Brian's been very, very supportive of me. We he lives like 1520 minutes, but for me, but I'm, I am at his store all the time. We're, he's, he's, he's a very good friend. He's been, been there for me for a lot of stuff. And I'm, I'm very, very grateful to to have him as, like a, basically, like a family member. And, and it's, it's, it's, it's so strange in in, you know, looking back on, on it, it's weird that, like he's the one that made me want to write. And now, like, he calls me his little brother all the time now, you know, like, 20 years later, it's, it's, it's weird how things it's weird how your life works out, you know, I and again, you don't take things like that for granted, but I don't. But I'm not like, I'm not like fan boy anymore, you know, I haven't been fan boy in a long time. I don't get fan boy anymore on that kind of stuff. But like, you know, keen Keene is like the older brother to me, and a lot of these people in this business are, you know, it's, it's, cool. It's a cool it can be a very cool business. It can be a very stressful, hard business, but it can be a very, a very rewarding one, too. And I'm, I'm grateful for all the people that I know in this business and the people that have become some of my best friends in the world. You know, if, if, if, the thing is, if I had never met Brian, if, the way it goes, you know, you could, you could do the Kevin Bacon thing of like, you know, the the five degrees of Kevin Bacon, or whatever it's called, if I never met Brian, or I never started reading his work, I literally never would have met my wife and had my child. You know, it's just the way things go in a line, you know, I never would have met some of the best friends I ever have in this world, you know, like some of Brian's other, you know, underlings like like Steven Kos newski or Wiley young or summer cannon, those, those four in particular, or those three in particular are, like my best friends in the world. There's some of my closest friends. And I'm very, very, very protective of my my friend group in this business. I'm very protective of them, like very protective. And I wouldn't know what I do without them. You know, I they're, they're, amazing people. Same thing with Mike Lombardo. He's in that group too. Yeah, I'm forever grateful for the way things have, have, have panned out for me in my life. And yeah, it's, it's, it's been a it's been an interesting journey. It's been an interesting journey. It's been a lot of highs, a lot of lows, but lot of laughs and a lot of smiles too. And that's that's always that's always good. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 43:07
no, of course, knew that you and Brian were close, but I didn't realize that his store, vortex books and comics were so close to where you live that's effectively your local bookstore then. And, I mean, what has it been like? I guess, like, what 10, 1011, months since opening to have that as part of the community?

Wesley Southard 43:32
It's been cool. It's been it's been really cool. It's, it's literally 15 minutes down the road for me, it's a straight shot down the highway. It's been fun. It's been fun watching what he and Mary have grown there. I remember going in the store when it was first, when he was first putting it together, and I was like, oh, man, this is, this is going to be interesting. Like, this is, this is kind of a strange spot for it, you know, in this, like, weird little, kind of river town and, I don't know how this is going to work, but I'm here for it, I'm here to support it, and I'm happy for them. And then it's, it really just worked, man. It's, it's a beautiful store. It's, it's, the layout is cool. The signings that he's been getting there, the people that he's been getting to come in the building, I mean, it's, it's been very successful. And I'm, I'm super happy for him, and I know he's, he loves it, and Mary loves it, and the community loves it. There's this people that come from all over the place. I mean, he's had people from come out, from every state to check it out, and made pilgrimages to vortex. And it's, it's really cool. It's, it's cool to have something like that here in town. Now, I don't always have to buy my books on Amazon. I can, you know, Hey, Brian, do you have this book in your store? No, can you order for me? So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's really awesome.

Michael David Wilson 44:54
Yeah, and I think there's a lot of opportunities to kind of meet a. Writers, you know, for readers to to get those readings, to get those signed copies, there seems to be a lot of intrigue within vortex. If I'm ever in that area, I've got to go and check it out myself.

Wesley Southard 45:15
Absolutely for sure, he loved that. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 45:18
yeah. Well, we haven't spoke about the opening story yet, which is called closing costs. And this is such a fun story, at least that was my takeaway. I don't know, because I've got some interesting taste, but for me, it was so playful. It was a kind of original take on the demon possession meets haunted house meets upper class swingers parties, young girl and you know, as soon as you find out what the literal closing cost is that the prospective buyer has for this house that has been difficult to sell, shall we say, Yeah, then I knew I was in for quite the ride.

Wesley Southard 46:11
It's closing costs is an interesting one. I I don't remember its exact origin, because it's been, it's been since, I guess I wrote that in like 2017 came out in 2018 I half the time I can't remember what I ate yesterday, much less something from eight, like forever ago. I remember specifically wanting to write a story about a realtor, because we have back home in Indiana, where I'm from, one of our close family friends is a realtor. And I just think Realtors just have such a strange job. They're kind of always working, like they don't really have any downtime, like if, even if they're not necessarily at the office or at like a showing, they're still kind of always working, like, they're always on the clock, like, always like, like having to, like, rush out of the house to go to do a showing or something. So I think it's a very strange job. And I remember when I was developing the story, I went to my our friend's house and sat with a notebook for the first time, and I felt very writerly with a notebook, and be like, Well, tell me about your job so I can do, you know, so I can write this all down and make sure this is all correct. You know, it made me feel very special when I was doing this. Um, yeah, closing costs is a fun one that was kind of like at the time. I feel like I was kind of emulating, I guess, like grand Masterton or something, maybe like Ed Lee at the time. It's a fun one. I wouldn't say it's one of my better works, but it's definitely fun. I've gotten a lot of people that really like the opening to that one, especially like the first couple lines of that one. But as far as like, the Russians go in the story. I I'll be honest, I don't even remember how I that that came about, like wanting to have like a Russians, be that, be like the main characters of that story. But I was fortunate enough of the time to actually be friends with a Russian woman who was able to help me correct some of the Russian dialect in the story because I didn't realize she was telling me that. I guess, like Russian people, like did like they will say certain things. Like, if they're they'll say things a certain way, if their spouse is in the room with them, or not say, if they're in the room, they'll say it one way. But if they're not, they'll say something like, they'll say it a different way. Or just, I don't know, just it was interesting, kind of learning the way, like, another language works like that. And I, and I think that was also my way of like, like I said, kind of emulating Graham Masterton. Because Graham, if he, if you read enough Grand Master and you realize he's a lot of his characters that speak foreign languages in the books kind of jump in and out of speaking that language and speaking English and, like, back and forth. And they'll do that, like, in the middle of sentences. And that's one of like, those weird little things that I kind of picked up on, that I started doing in my own stuff. So that's like, I try not to emulate too many other people, but I've noticed that, like, that's one of the few things that I have picked up from him in particular that have kind of stuck with me. So I ended up doing that like a lot in my books. But yeah, I still like closing costs. Closing costs is like, one of my earliest things, and it's fun, again, not one of my absolute best works, but it is still a pretty fun book.

Bob Pastorella 49:44
It had a Clyde Barker feel to it. I felt like I was reading the books of blood, okay, story, you know, especially with some of the imagery, and then, you know, just the the the, I guess, the overt sexual. Feature of it, you know, that that comes out of left field, but it just, it also felt right. It was very logical yet unpredictable, you know. And you kind of put yourself, you know, in the main character's shoes, and like, what would you do in this situation? If this is all happening to you, what would you do? And, you know, and then I think morally he, he stood to, stuck to his guns. It didn't really work out that way. Of course, you know that, because it's a horror story, right? Yeah, you know, I think that he had those. There was a conviction there that that worked for the story. Yeah,

Wesley Southard 50:46
yeah. I think so too. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 50:49
I think we all think in these situations about what we would do right sometimes what we would do and what would be the right thing to do. Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not right. There's an interesting proposition, let's put it like that, with a number of bonuses, but some morally questionable consequences too. But yeah, it was so fun. I think, you know, it completely stands up, and it deserves to be in this collection, and I think a lot of people are going to be greatly entertained by it. I guess what Bob said about the Barker vibe, it wasn't something I picked up on, but now that Bob said it particularly the latter half of the story. It does get into that Clive Barker territory. Yeah, I could see that. But we need to jump back to free some because, I mean, as I said before, very understated, but so powerful. The most powerful piece in the collection. You spoke about the origin story in terms of this, am I the asshole thread? But I've got to believe too, just from the way that it's written, that fatherhood must have impacted this story too. I mean, could you have written it pre fatherhood? Was this a story that you could only really have written at this time in your life?

Wesley Southard 52:28
Oh, no, this, this definitely had to have been written. If I was a father, there's no way this would have been able to rebuild. And if I wasn't a parent, it just, I mean, I mean, you know, you're a parent, that the things, it changes you and makes you think different ways, and your priorities change. And I think the priorities of the main character were kind of the same priorities I would have if I was in that situation. Yeah, I don't, I don't think that. I don't think this story would have existed three years ago. I mean, for any other things, I mean having a parent or having a child has changed my my writing style and and my content that I am putting out. But as far as this, the story and the structure, yeah, I don't, I don't think that this would have been possible had I not been at a parent now? So, yeah, yeah, I But either way, I'm super happy that I wrote it. I'm super happy with the way it came out, and I'm when people have been telling me that they really enjoy it. It means a lot. The story meant a lot to me, and it was something that once I got it out, it just it felt so good to get it out, and it felt good for my soul to get it out, because it had been a long time since I had written since the last book. And, yeah, I'm super proud of it. And I appreciate you guys everything you've been saying about the whole book in general, but, but threesome in particular, I appreciate what you guys are saying. It makes me feel good, and I'm really happy, but thank you guys,

Michael David Wilson 54:08
yeah, yeah. I mean, I really hope that it gets a lot of wide attention, because it deserves to and so, I mean, you've said, you know, over the course of this conversation, that you're certainly thinking, maybe you will put it out as a standalone as well. And yeah, I mean it, it should be. And it kind of comes back a little bit to something that Bob said, you know, in the first hour, when we were talking about writing fearlessly. And if you write fearlessly, you know that that's how you're going to make it, that's how you're going to have success. And the only caveat, really, which we alluded to, is it is not always going to be an instant thing. You know, this is a long game as a writer with Paul. Tremblay, as we said to maybe it wasn't 20 years, but maybe 10 years of writing these crime books, until something about a head full of ghosts just tapped into the zeitgeist. Then, you know, even with things like frees, even if it wasn't noticed straight away. It's the kind of thing where, even in 10 years, because it is a timeless story that really speaks to humanity, you get the the right reader or the right person picking it up, and then it could tap into something, and it goes viral, or whatever we call the equivalent of viral. 2034, where there's more AI than humans, which is a terrifying thought, but, yeah, it's an amazing book, and it it certainly spoke to me a lot as well. Because, I mean, you know, I said I don't share that much to do with my personal life, unless relevant. But here is a moment where it's very relevant. You know, I'm I'm divorced, but I have a child with my ex, and now I've remarried, which I don't know if I've said that on a surprise, and you know, that means that there, there is like, not exactly a conflict, but there's a pressure, perhaps only within my own mind. But it's like, I want to be there for my wife, but I have to be there for my daughter as well. So it's like, you know, imagine if your wife was not on board right with you seeing your kid, you know what? What are you going to do? And perhaps before becoming a parent, you know, and understanding that bond my I don't know, maybe my answer would have been different. But if I find out that I have a child with someone else, and it's not an ideal situation. I kind of got to step up. I got to be there. I can't, I can't, not. And, you know, it could cost you a lot. So it's really, it's really a book that makes you think, and makes you think about consequences of action and and what on earth to do. And, ah, I mean, there's, there are some twists in this book. You know, there are some interesting things there. There's some stuff which I can't go into because it goes into major spoiler territory, but I did think is, is Wes really going there? Oh yeah, you were you went there. But I can't say anymore, but it, it's so, so a book, a little bit like David Moody's shadow locked, which recently came out where you kind of find yourself at odds in terms of who to root for and who you should be rooting for. Yeah, it's a perfect book in terms of painting characters in fantastic colors, rather than us being black and white, you know, morals and right and wrong, it it's fluid. There's not a kind of, this is right, this is wrong. And you may find yourself in reading the story kind of at one point, siding with one character, and then a little bit later, being like, well, actually, I'm more on this side. And, you know, am I the asshole? Was the question that that started this and and the answer is normally, well, a little bit of Yes, a little bit of no for every single character, there's nothing you know that that's absolutely perfect. There's nothing that's absolutely reprehensible. It's just fucked up, flawed humans trying to make the best of an impossible situation.

Wesley Southard 59:19
And that's and that's really, that's the gist of it, that's, that's right, that's, that's what's appealing to me now, as as the older I get, the more interested I am in characterization and people and relationships. And, you know, like I was telling you guys about the the book that came out before this, disaster pieces with my story. Everybody Wants to Rule the world. It's about, I mean, the main story is about a bomb going off in a building, an office building, and a couple of people trying to get out of the building before the entire building collapses. But there's this backstory of the. Character, having this unlikely friendship with this with this other guy who these two should not be friends at all. One guy is a Puerto Rican gentleman, and the other guy is kind of a white he's a white guy that's kind of racist and kind of an asshole. But somehow they're became friends over certain circumstances, and it's about how their friendship continues to butt heads and and fractures over time, because one person can't change, one person refuses to change, while the other person continues to evolve as a person. And you know, a lot of that, a lot of that was just based off of something my dad told me once, when, when he was a kid, he got, you know, this, this high school bull, this bully in like, middle school or high school, kept fucking with him day after day after day and and my dad finally just had enough and knocked this guy on his ass one day and the next day, that guy wanted to be best friends with him. He was his best friend in the whole world. They just, he was just like, oh man, you know, like, suddenly, like, there's this whole level of respect. And I always just found that so interesting. I'm like, Well, how can two people that didn't get along suddenly, take a thump to the head, and now suddenly they're best friends. Or how could that happen? So that kind of stuck with me for a long time, and that's kind of the crux of the story is, is unlikely friendships that should not be and how people should be able to evolve and change and be better people, while some people just can't, and how that, you know, fractures their relationship worse and worse over time and and how people change and help. Some people can change, some people can't change. And, yeah, these, these, these are the types of things that really I find fascinating these days again, I don't know if it's just because I'm getting older, if my tastes have changed, if I don't know, maybe I'm getting snobbier with what I what I'm ingesting, or what I'm or what I'm wanting to put out into the world. But these are the things that that I find fascinating, and I want to keep discovering about myself, and I want to keep trying to tell people and to try to people try try to try to get readers to try different things and and, you know, expanding your creativity. I want, I want to not be a one trick pony. I want to be able to say, hey, yeah, I can write, you know, dark, crazy horror, but I can also write, you know, a thriller story. Or I can write hell maybe one day, I can write a romance book, or I can write a science fiction story. You know, one of my favorite authors ever is Richard Matheson. I think Richard Matheson is the pet. He is on the highest pedestal of me. For me, of writers, he is the granddaddy. But he wasn't just a horror writer. He wrote everything, and he mastered everything. He wrote in every genre, and just knocked every genre on its ass, and I and that's I would love to be able to one day say, you know, I gave it my all in a lot of genres. I'm always going to be a horror writer. I'm a horror writer. I love horror, I read horror, I write horror. I am a horror writer through and through. But I want to be able to say that I tried a lot of different things. And I can say, you know, I've now written thrillers. I have kind of a Creature Feature sci fi book, the one that I wrote with summer cannon called slaves to gravity. I mean, it didn't start out as a sci fi book, but it certainly sure shit became one about halfway through and became a very sci fi horror book. But, yeah, I think I think, as a writer, I think it should be, no matter what genre you're in, you should want to continue to be better and expand your portfolio and and and try new things. I mean, you know, look at, look at someone like, Oh, shit. What is his name? Wrote Jurassic Park. Michael Crichton, why was I forgetting? Michael Crichton, you know, he wrote in all genres too. I mean, the God for God six, the guy created, er, the TV show, er, you know, wrote Congo and Jurassic Park, and wrote a lot of sci fi and stuff too. I mean, he was kind of, he kind of did a lot, and I find that, I find that really fascinating. And I think more authors should be trying that thing, and especially genre authors, I think they should be trying to expand what they do. Otherwise, I feel like you're just gonna stagnate. I mean, even Brian Keene, you know, he's written horror for years, and then he wanted to write, you know, a weird kind of, I don't know how to say it, like, like, like, a, you know, books like he used to write, like he used to read when he was a kid. So he started writing lost level books. And he loves those and those, you know, you got to try new things. You just have to, and otherwise it's just, it's going to get stagnant, and I think you're going to get bored, you're going to write yourself into a corner, and that's the last thing I want to

Bob Pastorella 1:05:33
do. It's like Daniel Crouse, he, he like, does something different with every book, he's, I think he's, he's, like, there's always going to be something dark there, yeah. But like, he has a new book that's setting in during World War One, and that's coming out, you know, next year. And, you know, it's he, he's, he's, to me, he's almost like a modern day. Michael Crichton, you know, because, Michael, I mean, she, Michael, wrote eaters of the dead, which was made into the movie The 13th warrior, yeah, so he wrote The Great Train Robbery, which is was made into a film. The book, that's one of the, the earliest adult books that I read, you know, as I was growing up. I read it probably when I was 13 or 14 years old, and it stuck with me. It's, you know, it's historical, realistic fiction is thrilling, you know, yeah. And that's, you know, it's, that's where the word thrill, you know, like when you read about a thriller or something like that, it's, it's kind of, it's got a 10 like you, it's gotta excite you. It's gotta have unique it's pizza. I don't know it's, it's hard to explain, but I get where you're coming from, you want, you want to be able to expand. And I think with with the threesome, you, you've definitely moved, you've moved up a notch several and to it to a point to where there's this unpredictability with you that makes me want to definitely read the next thing you write.

Wesley Southard 1:07:21
And I like that. I appreciate that. Thank you. Have you ever met Daniel Kraus? That guy is so cool.

Bob Pastorella 1:07:28
Yes, I'm I met him, ghoulish.

Wesley Southard 1:07:31
Oh yeah, that's right, ghoulish.

Bob Pastorella 1:07:35
And then we, of course, he has been on the podcast, and we surprised him at last at the killer con before last, because he was doing a reading at book people, and it was the night before killer con. And so me and Jerry Parton and Brian Keene and Johnny Compton and Agatha Andrews, a lot of the Texas crew showed up. And I think we surprised the hell out of him, because he was, when he came in, he was, you know, tell him who he you know, the people that book people. That's a weird statement. But anyway, who he was, and he turned around, he goes, Hey. And he looked back, he goes, Hey, what? What the hell y'all doing here, you know? And it's like, we come to see you because it's killer Khan, and we're here early, you know. And he's like, Oh, no, shit, I need to go to killer con one day, you know. But yeah, it was, yeah, he's, I think he, he's, he could be our modern day Michael Crichton, that's

Wesley Southard 1:08:42
awesome. Yeah, he's, he's a super nice guy. It's, I've done two signings with him before, one in Richmond, Virginia, at a Barnes and Noble, and then at ghoulish, and he remembered me from both of them, and he talked to me, he's super cool. And then I hadn't seen him in, like, a year. And then he was at the Merrimack Valley Halloween book festival up in Massachusetts, and I remember he was, he was walking across the room, and he just saw me, and he came, made a beeline, came over and started talking to me. And I was thinking, like, oh, you remember me. Okay, that's cool. Like, I thought he would be like, Oh, this fucking guy again, or whatever. But like, yeah, he's, he's super nice guy. He's such a sweet guy.

Michael David Wilson 1:09:20
Oh, yeah, definitely. And as Bob has said, I mean, there's an unpredictability in terms of what he's going to write, like, you never know, but whatever he writes, he is going to have researched it meticulously to a point where I feel like, oh, he just got a PhD in that subject to write this book, is he's intimidatingly good, that's how I'd put it, which, yeah, the Crichton comparison is on point. But goodness, this has been an awful lot of fun chatting with you, and we do a. Appreciate you. You know, giving up so much of your evening for this to happen, but I mean, I

Wesley Southard 1:10:07
appreciate it, man, thank you guys for having me on this has been awesome. I've been wanting to come on this show for forever, like, and I'm not just saying that because I'm on here, like, I've been wanting to be gonna come on here for a long time. So I thank you. Thank you both for having me on here. This has been a lot of fun. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:10:23
yeah. Well, I am certainly a Wesley suffered fan, and anytime you have something new coming out, you got to let us know. Because, you know, particularly after reading three some I was pretty wowed by it. So I want to see what is next for you, which does beg the question, what is next for you?

Wesley Southard 1:10:49
So I just started working on a new book. I'm hoping to have it done by about mid next year. I'm not sure how long it's going to be. It's probably gonna be about as long as threesome, I'm guessing, maybe like 40,000 words or so. It's a book called teeth marks, and it's about a guy who moves from his his dream has been to move from the Midwest to New York City. He's had this just glamorous dream to live in the Big Apple. That's just his whole thing. It's his whole personality. And when he gets there, he suddenly finds out that every time he's sad or depressed, people bite him, no rhyme or reason why. And they don't bite him hard enough to bite skin or to break the skin, but they just bite him, and then just keep moving along. They don't even realize they're doing it. It's just something about him. Anytime he's around somebody and he's sad or depressed, he gets bitten, and the people just move on. But over the process of this book, he ends up getting involved with the mob, and it's just this whole thing. But that's, that's kind of the gist of the book. It's, it's, it's another weird one, but it's not going to be too weird, but it's, it's just weird enough. But that's, that's kind of what I started working on recently. I also am hoping to put together another novella collection later next year. I'm hoping we'll see, yeah, that's, that's the plan for the next two books, at least. So that's what it's looking like.

Michael David Wilson 1:12:21
Oh my God, I am so in fatigue mark because of having read a number of your stories. Now, I knew that something intriguing was going to happen when he arrived in New York, but despite the title, that is not what I imagined was going to happen. I should have but, oh my god, I love it. And Bob, as well, got my credit card ready, as Bob would say,

Bob Pastorella 1:12:53
he took the words right out of my mouth. Man, I'm ready. I'm gonna get some teeth marks.

Michael David Wilson 1:13:01
Oh, yeah, and I'm glad that it sounds like you'll be releasing it as a standalone. Because honestly, I think anytime you write a novel, even if it's a short one, you know, 40,000 words, you can put that out as a standalone. You know, you've got the the quality, the kelps as a writer to you know, wow, the reader, it doesn't need to be hidden in a collection. Put it out. Put it center stage. Teeth box, I'm ready. Thank you. All right. Well, where can our listeners and viewers connect with you?

Wesley Southard 1:13:45
I am on I'm on Facebook. I'm on X Twitter, whatever the hell you want to call I don't post that much on Twitter anymore because Elon Musk can eat a dick. I'm on blue sky Instagram, tick tock. I mean, I'm on all of them. I'm very, very easy to find. And I have a website Wesley, Southern horror calm, where I sell signed copies of my books that ship worldwide. I try to keep my I trying to keep it updated with like, my next, like, my upcoming book signings and stuff on there too. You can sign up for my newsletter, which I need to get back on doing, because I've kind of let that lapse a bit. Yeah, I'm very easy to find. It's, it's, I'm not hiding anywhere. I'm, I'm out there, I'm, I'm there. So

Michael David Wilson 1:14:38
all right, do you have any final thoughts to leave us with?

Wesley Southard 1:14:47
Yeah, the toilet paper roll goes rolls over the front, not the back. I would say that. So anybody that puts the toilet paper roll that rolls on the back is evil. You. Have to put the toilet paper roll that rolls out. So that's my last piece of advice for people. Controversial

Michael David Wilson 1:15:05
ending, I think so too. Thank you for joining us, absolutely.

Wesley Southard 1:15:11
Thank you for having me.

Michael David Wilson 1:15:18
Thank you for listening to This Is Horror Podcast. If you enjoy the show and want to support us, then please consider becoming a patron a patreon.com. Forward slash, This Is Horror. You'll get early bird access to each and every episode, and you can submit questions to the interviewee. You'll also automatically become a member of the This Is Horror discord, and every year there are bonus episodes for patrons only, such as story unboxed, the horror podcast on the craft of writing, in which Bob and I and sometimes a special guest will dissect a short story or film and let you know writing lessons and takeaways to improve your own writing. Another great way to support us is to leave us a review on the Apple podcast app or website. And if you want to watch the video version of the This Is Horror Podcast, join us on YouTube. Youtube.com, forward slash at This Is Horror Podcast. You can subscribe there and get notified every time there is a new video. And however you support us, I thank you in advance. Okay, before I wrap up a quick advert break,

RJ Bayley 1:16:37
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Bob Pastorella 1:16:46
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Michael David Wilson 1:17:45
I go, I would like to ask a final request for those who have listened this far, and it is pertaining to my forthcoming release, daddy's boy, which is out on May 6 of this year. I would love it if you could add it to your Goodreads, if it is something that sounds interesting to you, if it is something that you would like to read, if you want to support me personally, then do search for daddy's boy by Michael David Wilson and add it to your Goodreads, because that helps in terms of the visibility and getting the word out there. Now, up to this point, I've written horror books and I've written dark thrillers. This is definitely a dark comedy, so it's taken things in a little bit of a different direction, but something that a lot of people have really enjoyed, and I've been fortunate enough to get a number of great blurbs, including this one from danger. Slater, Dan just said, starts out as a fast talking crime caper, but soon takes a hard left into all out. WTF. Three, I never knew what was coming next. Dad is boy is exciting, weird, violent, hilarious, harrowing, original and a hell of a lot of fun. Exactly my kind of jam. Well, thank you, danger and I jam with your work too, which is not what you said. You didn't use it as a verb, but there we go. So please do add daddy's boy by Michael David Wilson, that's me to your Goodreads, and until next time with Nat Cassidy, take care of yourself. Be good to one another. Read horror. Keep on writing and have a great, great day.

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