TIH 496: Max Booth III on Abnormal Statistics, Indiana Death Song, and 3 Eggs (with Robb Olson, The ARC Party)

TIH 496 Max Booth III on Abnormal Statistics, Indiana Death Song, and 3 Eggs (with Robb Olson, The ARC Party)

In this podcast, Max Booth III talks about Abnormal Statistics, Indiana Death Song, 3 Eggs, and much more.

About Max Booth III

Max Booth III is an author, screenwriter, and publisher best known for his work in the horror field. His latest book is the short story collection, Abnormal Statistics.

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Michael David Wilson 0:28

Welcome to This Is Horror Podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson. And every episode I chat with the world's best writers and creatives about writing, life lessons, creativity, and much more. Now today is a second special episode in collaboration with Rob Olson of the Ark party podcast and formally have booked and we are once again counting with Max spoof the third and we are going to be diving deep into many of the short stories from his brand new collection abnormal statistics. So if we didn't cover it in the previous episode, you can be sure that we covered a story in this one and at the end of the episode Max reads a short story titled free eggs which Believe you me that is an event not to be missed. And as we've already seen episodes there is also a video episode if that is more your thing. So do subscribe to us on YouTube. And you can find that@youtube.com forward slash at This Is Horror Podcast. Sit down with forget that you know at sign relieved you can also find this youtube.com/this is horror. Now before we get into the episode, it is time for a quick advert break.

Bob Pastorella 2:06

From the host of This Is Horror Podcast comes a dark thriller of obsession, paranoia and voyeurism. After relocating to a small coastal town, Brian discovers a hole that gazes into his neighbor's bedroom. Every night she dances and he peeps, same song Same time, same wild and mesmerizing dance. But soon Brian suspects he's not the only one watching. She's not the only one being watched. They're Watching is The Wicker Man meets Body Double with a splash of Suspiria They're Watching by Michael David Wilson and Bob Pastorella is available from this is horror.co.uk Amazon and wherever good books are sold.

RJ Bayley 2:44

It was as if the video it unzips my skin slunk inside my tapered flesh and become one with me.

Bob Pastorella 2:53

From the creator of This Is Horror comes a new nightmare for the digital age. The Girl in the Video by Michael David Wilson, after a teacher receives a weirdly arousing video it's like descends into paranoia and obsession. More videos follow each containing information no stranger could possibly know but who's sending them and what do they want? The answers may destroy everything every one He loves The Girl in the Video is the ring meets fatal attraction from iPhone generation available now in paperback ebook and audio.

Michael David Wilson 3:23

Okay, well with that said here it is it is max booth third on This Is Horror. Max, welcome back to This Is Horror Podcast.

Max Booth III 3:39

Oh, hey, thank you for having me. But hey, it's not just it's not just that podcast, right. It's two different podcasts as one.

Michael David Wilson 3:47


Robb Olson 3:48

A very awesome and successful crossover situation so far. So yeah, thanks for coming back also to the arc party.

Max Booth III 3:56

Absolutely. No problem, man. I mean, I had no choice. We did one episode. We had to do the second one. So he'll we'll

Michael David Wilson 4:06

We open the collection abnormal statistics with the novella, Indiana def sang. So what prompted opening the collection with the novella,

Max Booth III 4:19

I think it was inspired by Stephen King skeleton crew. Because that collection begins with maybe one of his best, the vallas the mist, and how it seemed kind of cool, maybe a little punk rock to me, because it doesn't seem like this, like the smelt decision to begin the collection with the longest thing in the book, especially a novella that's like oval one thrilled, the books length. But it just seemed like a cool way to introduce it. And like, once I added that to the beginning of the book, I tried to write an introduction add to the collection, anything I wanted to say kind of felt like it was already included in that novella. So it just felt like a great way to introduce the collection all around.

Michael David Wilson 5:13

Yeah, I mean, see, magically, it kind of hits on every single note that you've got in abnormal statistics. And, I mean, it would certainly appear that it's perhaps your most like auto biographical novel to I mean, obviously, it does a lot in the nightly disease as well, that is autobiographical. But I guess this one feels more personal as well, because it just how heavy and dramatic a lot of the themes are. Yeah,

Max Booth III 5:46

I would say the nearly diseases are so why as you said, but mill so full comedic effect, and the death song isn't that funny. And the the true, the true stuff in it is definitely less comedic in milk, just like sometimes in bill saying, and sometimes just like dramatic, and maybe a little middle, I think both of those all little therapeutic and oil and waves, like nightly disease can be described as Filipina ik, because I was writing to kind of like vent about this shitty customer. And also we could at the hotel. And then in the end, a death song was written to kind of unload this. I didn't bizarro and traumatic childhood that had in a way that I started with, I don't know, like to stop thinking about it so much, if that makes sense.

Michael David Wilson 6:50

Yeah. Yeah, it does. And I know from previous conversations that you've said that this is a story originally, you conceived it as a novel that you have been wanting to write for a long time now. And you said in your story notes that the thing that helped the pieces, click into place, what was in fact putting a genre spin on it? So I'm wondering, what was the element? So what was the moment where you were like, Okay, now I know how to write the story.

Max Booth III 7:28

Well, this is when it's difficult for me to talk about novella, because I'm not sure like, what I should say about what happens in it and what I should keep secrets. But those a certain thing that happened a little more than halfway through the novella, will, some of the vanilla div kind of flips. And when I had that idea, that's when it hit me like, oh, shit, now I'm excited. And now I know how to write this. Because until that hit me, I didn't know what to do. I had the premise, right, I had the kid stuck in hotel, and he is depressed. But I didn't know bill that was going. But once I had like a, like, not even an ending, but a way to propel the action, and this suspense, that gave me like this lift off to really like, bust my ass and get the novella done. And yeah, I tried to write it as a non genre piece, just like a mainstream novel, of just a sad book about a kid going through stupid shit. But it was really billing, I found I couldn't get into it, because my childhood was not exciting. And it was really billing, it was just me sitting around reading books, and writing stories and just waiting for something new to happen. And that's not fun to read about. So once I finally came up with a way to incorporate genre elements, and also give up on the idea of making it a novel and embrace the idea of it being an umbrella, that's when everything like clicked into place.

Robb Olson 9:10

So I have thoughts on the story itself. But I guess one of the things I'm going to start out by telling a little story I read this couple of months ago, or whatever, I read it, and when I got done with the novella, I was extremely anxious, like it had a real heavy effect on me to the point where like, I couldn't sit still and I was really just like, distracted and agitated and like so like I started cleaning my apartment and like doing dishes and like vacuuming and stuff, and just to like it like purgative kind of activities because it had such a strong effect on me that I had to do something to kind of exercise it from me, which is it's interesting that you kind of said that it was I hope hopefully part of it was to get you to stop thinking about it so much. And that was my experience. And I messaged you and I said something about how after I read that, I was like incredibly anxious for the next like four hours. And that's not an exaggeration. And you beat me to tweeting it about how that was like kind of a, probably like the best possible reaction. But that leads me to a legitimate question, which would be, have you been getting that type of reaction? Or other reactions? And if so, like, what does it make you feel now that you've done this very autobiographical thing, and put it out in the world? And now people are reading it and responding to a lot of what you know, actually, like happened to you? And a lot of it is not happy stuff, like how are you? What reactions are you getting? And how is that kind of making you feel?

Max Booth III 10:55

I haven't gotten a ton of reactions about the other biographical elements yet. Which I'm okay with, the less besides like podcasting, I don't really have any need to talk about it. But not many folks have mentioned it. They've mostly just have said, like he made his made them unsettled. And they haven't been able to stop thinking about it, which is awesome. I mean, anyone who writes they want to leave an impression. And anyone who writes in this genre, they want to leave a negative impression, I think. And I think, I think mission accomplished because I'm super stoked about how it came out. I mean, the book was written a book like this, a novella like this, it can't be too consumed about plot, I don't think it has to coast and vibes feel it's really like, be impactful, if at least the way I wanted to do it. And I think the vibe is bad shit is happening. And you're going to feel bad. And I think I hit that with a with a job

Robb Olson 12:03

very effectively. So I'd say and like, that's the thing with and I'm not the expert in horror of the three of us, I'm the least expert. But I think that I think that you're playing on empathy, kind of regardless, if you're if you're doing an effective job, sometimes with horror and yours plays on empathy in a way where it's like, I feel like the awful things that are happening to this person, and it's just not making me feel good.

Max Booth III 12:32

I don't know if a lot of that has to do with it being written in second Pilsen, because that was something else I struggled with was trying to decide how to write it. But once I I felt trying out second Pilsen, it seemed to come out pretty fast. Because I don't know. Sometimes when you're struggling to write something, it helps to try rewriting it in a different point of view. And I hadn't written much with second Pilsen. So when I tried it with this novella, I didn't know what to expect. But it was definitely the right way to write it. Because when I suspect it, it should feel like because it's written in second Pilsen is I want it to feel kind of predestined, like the kid feel really about has no choice. And these things are going to happen to him no matter what he does. I think by reading it that way, maybe it makes the reader feel that sense of doom and dread.

Michael David Wilson 13:33

And for all of these reasons, this is why it's such a bold decision to open with it. Because I mean, in terms of story, and structure is probably the least conventional of the pieces, you know, perhaps with the exception of the final piece, which is a companion piece, and we will jump into that later. I mean, I mean, yeah, for me, you know that the final piece of that is a continuation of the story. I'll be in a different form, and you've confirmed it so good.

Max Booth III 14:09

But honestly, I haven't I have intentions. I don't have any like big plans yet. But I have intentions of continuing reading about Shilton, Filson things included in both of these pieces. In many ethical pieces. I've never been a big guy and like creating an ongoing mythos. But something about this, this one, it'll take you a little long. Yeah, like things will flowing. I can. I feel like I could continue reading about it.

Michael David Wilson 14:40

Right. Yeah. And this is slightly difficult to talk about when we can't explicitly say what we're talking about, but I feel

Max Booth III 14:49

I'm okay with doing it. Unless I'm also like, what do you guys think?

Michael David Wilson 14:55

Well, I mean, Rob, do you think we should you know, Not mention exactly the person we're talking about just so that people who read it can get to experience now, first time for themselves, or do you think we should mention it? I'm genuine later on?

Robb Olson 15:14

Yeah. That's the thing. I always was so shy about talking about things that would spoil stuff. past podcasts and stuff, but

Max Booth III 15:25

the books out so I mean, yeah, like, this is also episode two, right?

Robb Olson 15:30

Everybody has the opportunity to choose not to listen to parts of this if they want. So I'm not totally against it. But like, I think that the thing that I discover too, is that sometimes if you don't talk about stuff, you're depriving everybody of useful conversation. So yeah, I'm, I'm kind of struggling to talk about it, talk about it, but like we, you know, maybe split in a morning. Yeah.

Max Booth III 15:55

So anyone, anyone listening to this, if you haven't read the collections, specifically, the opening novella, we're gonna spoil the shit out of it right now. So maybe hit pause and go read it and come back? Yeah, so the thing we will be talking about is named for John, This man. And it's kind of this. I don't even want to say, Man, this thing that used to be a man who was employed as a maintenance man at the casino, who takes a personal obsession with the boy and the novella, and yeah, he's named that John this man because he has a yellow John the skin. I realized now there's no question.

Michael David Wilson 16:45

We're lining like I was attempting to say before, you know, the jaundice man feels like he could be such a kind of iconic figure that I could almost imagine. You say you want to kind of continue writing about him, but even having almost like, bit part. So you do a completely different horror movie. And if you look close enough, you know, in the background there he is almost kind of like what Mike Flanagan did with The Haunting of Hill House. You've just got these hidden ghosts that if you look hard enough, you can find and there's just, there's so much in there. I feel. I mean, he's probably your most kind of traditional horror character you've created in that way. Like?

Max Booth III 17:36

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So anyone who did read the novella, and they liked it, stay tuned. I'll probably have I told John, This man, that stuff in the future.

Robb Olson 17:48

Yeah. One thing I want to because we can talk about anything, there's one thing that so I talked about the impact that the novella had on on me, and then there was like, a delayed impact, where this could just be my dumb brain or whatever. But like, once you read the story, this makes sense. I was like, Okay, there's the elements that are obviously probably drawn from real life. And then there's the elements that were created as like, you know, the other element, like the tone, tone, tonal kind of things. And then, so I was thinking about it. And I was like, okay, yeah, because like, I'd have reflected several times on the story. And then one thing popped in my head where I was like, Oh, this is almost worse. And it was the fact that you're, you know, I think it's your Twitter name is give me your teeth. And I was like, Nah, fuck. Like that, like mine screwed me again. So now I'm like, What is this thing with teeth? So like, I have a whole nother level where I was like, this teeth thing, something that he's thought about for a while? Or is the teeth thing just coincidental or what? I was like, screwing my own mind up?

Michael David Wilson 18:56

Well, it's interesting that Rob reacted that way. Because similarly, when I got to the teeth, bear and give me your teeth. I was like, Oh, my God is like Max for 10 years, like plan Z for this is like the origin story finally. And even if it seems that you're about to deny that, and you may have denied that in previous interviews, I don't think you hear that anymore. I think you should own it. This was a deliberate plan. You have done this room over a decade.

Max Booth III 19:32

I have been inviting people recently. They give me a little teeth now suck on them. I did an event at the Alamo Drafthouse last week. And I talked about the book fast. I'm doing mid April. So please come on down. And then if anyone brings me some of the old TfL sacrum, although I didn't read it from the novella, so I realized now they didn't have the context. Yeah, explain any of that. I just kind of in my head, assume they knew, but why would they know that? Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 20:06

yeah, that's even better. You would genuinely do that. And we know I'm having done that moment. So sure about that. I don't know if I've got to remove any but we can, we can save.

Max Booth III 20:22

I have. I have a plan. I have a plan. I've recently Googled how to buy human teeth and you can, it's not cheap, but you can buy like human teeth and like boxes. Because I want to do like a limited edition. He'll be careful of the novella at some point. I think it would be cool if everyone who bought a copy I also sent like a toothless Ziploc bag. Yeah, so you

Michael David Wilson 20:43

can put a little pendant as well.

Robb Olson 20:46

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think you can just like pop it in your mouth every now and then like,

Michael David Wilson 20:51

exactly. Yeah.

Max Booth III 20:53

Past the time. Maybe it'll drive me a great distance you need to stay awake. Yeah, the tooth

Robb Olson 21:02

it was a cool element to the story. The effect that having someone's tooth in your mouth had and it seems totally random and kind of bespoke for the story. But then I thought about your Twitter name. And I was like, This guy's got a to thing. And do Yeah,

Max Booth III 21:23

that's it's like how Quentin Tarantino Yeah, I also Chill man. Bye. feet, but also teeth. So feet anti Stewart filmed me?

Michael David Wilson 21:37

What if you could only see someone's T for their feet?

Max Booth III 21:41

I want to commission commission somebody to draw me a foot and instead of toes I had teeth.

Michael David Wilson 21:49

Did you honestly?

Max Booth III 21:52

I tried with the they told me no. Because they asked why. And I said this was like enough to say that. Yeah. I don't want to do with them. So if anyone wants to trial that yeah, I would. I would like that. I mean,

Michael David Wilson 22:07

we got enough listeners that surely somebody is committed, you know, drawing a picture of feet, but with teeth instead of toes. I don't know. The fact that Max will potentially Jack after that Vidya is kind of

Max Booth III 22:28

forced out potentially. And that

Michael David Wilson 22:30

maybe will happen. We send them the picture of, of your work. Have you released?

Max Booth III 22:41

No, it's a private release.

Michael David Wilson 22:44

is probably the best. Yeah.

Max Booth III 22:49

I think so.

Michael David Wilson 22:51

Have you ever suffered from The Truman Show syndrome to take left?

Max Booth III 22:58

Yeah. Yeah. So in the novella, the kid watches The Truman Show, which is a movie about a guy who the schedules all of his life cameras have been filming him to this reality TV show. And in the novella, the Vela the kid gets convinced the same things going on with him because that's the only way any of this fucking makes sense. Why he has been mysteriously, like, stuck in this hotel, isolated from his friends no longer going to school. Why not? Maybe it could be a TV show. And yeah, that's just ripped straight from my own teenage yields will I was also convinced that maybe you know, cameras will hidden in watching me. It wasn't like a 24/7 delusion, but it was definitely like, in moments of intense isolation when I hadn't seen anybody in a while. And my thoughts would get away from me, I would begin looking around and just trying to find the cameras or trying to egg on the production team, like sitting on the window and announcing I'm about to jump out. So if anyone wants to come out and get me now's the time. Nobody did. But I didn't jump. So I don't know. I guess. I guess it would wasn't happening. To my knowledge.

Michael David Wilson 24:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Max Booth III 24:27

What about you guys? I think that's a I think that might be like a universal thing. Will you kind of think maybe cameras are watching you, the middle. I talk about it with people, they certainly tend to have that same like history or they've had moments in the life especially younger yields where they thought maybe everything was a TV show, they will stack in

Robb Olson 24:53

well, I have not had that but I've always like from a young age I've been really so I was raised I'm not religious. And from a young age, I've always had this kind of idea of like, how nothing really is happening for a reason. And like that was kind of like the focus of what the how the world made sense to me. And I think that at least my impression of when that happens to a person, it's kind of maybe consciously or subconsciously, a way for them to try and find a reason for the things that are happening. Like an explanation is kind of what comes to mind when I want to hear about that. And so, for me, I was like, there's no explanation and that makes me happy that centers me. So I feel like maybe that's the reason that I haven't personally experienced that. But that's, that's the kind of emotion I interpret when I hear that type of situation is like, it's someone trying to look for a rational explanation for like the bananas, things that are going on with them.

Max Booth III 25:52

Oh, yeah. 100%.

Robb Olson 25:53

Michael, have you felt that way?

Michael David Wilson 25:57

Well, I haven't actually believed that I'm the star of some sort of Truman Show experience, but I

Max Booth III 26:05

had to send the metaphysical

Robb Olson 26:16

grin you had when you said I? FUCK YOU. Jimmy really? Seriously, the moment you said it, Michael. He's like, Fuck you guys.

Michael David Wilson 26:30

That's just my face Max. But I you know, for video for video viewers, I deeply apologize for that. For this, but I mean, I mean, like, you know, I, I mean, I was brought up in a religious household. And yeah, then went to atheist and at the moment, I'm in a kind of stage of I don't know, what the fuck to believe, which probably puts me somewhere between atheist and agnostic. You know, I don't know what's going on. But I, I sometimes think about various philosophical theories like the brain in the jar theory, where what if like, I'm just being, you know, stimulated, and I can't say no, or talking to Max, you have a straight face. And nothing is particularly real. And, and then kind of linked into that, obviously, like, in the age that we're in, I'm very aware of the cameras and the surveillance going on anyway. So whilst we might not be the star of a Truman Show, like, we're all kind of being monitored, and anyway, and, I mean, I'm glad that I'm not growing up now. Because I think when I went to university, it was just kind of justice, Facebook had turned up, once the Justice social media was getting a lot more widespread. But a lot of the dumb shit that we used to do, like many of us is, like, I'm so glad that there isn't a video documentary of that kind of thing. Because, I mean, who knows? I might have been canceled. And I think that that in itself can create some paranoia and some censorship Not, not only because it's like, what if you say something deeply offensive, and ironically, and then that is taken out of context, that context being made to look like you did it authentically and, you know, complete with complete sincerity, but I think when you add in things like deep fake, it's like, you can now be made to have said something you never even fucking said. So I imagine that there's even more anxiety and paranoia for for people now because of what technology is doing. But I, I will say, as well, you know, the more the more isolated I am, just the more my kind of mental health suffers anyway. So, I mean, there's been times where, instead of teaching and writing, I've had periods where I've just been like a full time writer, but then obsessively, just kind of in the apartment and not going out and seeing anyone and it's I didn't realize in a way how much I needed human contact until it was taken away from me. Although, perhaps the most isolated time was the couple of years where I was working full time, but also looking after my daughter because then it's like, Okay, I can't even just leave leave the house easily. I mean, I can but it becomes a thing. Like getting her ready. Like it. Yeah. So I guess what I'm saying is isolation can lead to severe mental health issues and leave the house occasionally. That's, and that's something I guess a lot of us have, have felt these past few years with the pandemic, you know, being forced into these situations. And I imagine it is even worse for people who are naturally extroverted. Because, you know, I would say that, like I, I mean, I don't know, I'm kind of in the middle of that scale, I kind of think that I'm either a quite extroverted introvert or an introvert or an extrovert. If you're just full on extrovert, as Rob might be with that hand raise there. I imagine it's been brutal. Yeah, extremely. Speak to it, then. So

Max Booth III 31:02

Spoken like a classic extra field.

Robb Olson 31:05

So one thing I did early in the pandemic, which I think was one of the smartest things that I could have done, especially since I was transitioning away from my podcast, was to establish a thing where me and for people that I knew from, as young as like eight years old, who have stayed friends with forever. We do, we started doing a call every other Monday where we would talk for like two hours. And we would like we started by like, kind of chronicling our experiences as children together in school. But then it just kind of ended up being like, we just talk every two weeks. And so that has been so great, just for like having close friendships and stuff, but just but also just having someone to talk to and having people in your life when it's difficult to have people in your life. So that was kind of a lesson for me of like, Yeah, you can't just not interact with people. So I found that way to do that. So I'm sure we all kind of invented ways to do similar things. But that's a huge thing for me

Max Booth III 32:14

with. With how long I spent in the hotel, I definitely thought GATT how to talk to humans. So when I was 16, we left the hotel and we moved into a house, I began going to a school for like dropouts and people who get expelled from previous high schools. And everyone at that school is much older than I was. And I spent two years at that school not talking to a fucking soul because I just didn't know how to socialize. And I spent like a good chunk of my 20s trying to like, teach myself those skills. One of the reasons I even began a podcast. I mean, Michael will vouch the first time I went on his podcast, I think it was a field podcast that will go on and I was so nervous. I just got like almost blackout drunk, because I was just freaking out about the idea of talking to someone for any length of time. Nowadays, I'm pretty I'm pretty good with it. I think I enjoy talking to people I I enjoy doing like live readings, which we fill the schedule at the end of this episode. But it's because of the isolation that I experienced. I just forgot those skills that took me a long time to reteach myself them.

Michael David Wilson 33:31

Yeah. Well, I'm glad that we got you on the podcast. And there's been many hours of podcasting from you now.

Max Booth III 33:41

Some would say too much too many.

Michael David Wilson 33:43

Those would be unkind people. So we don't need to listen to them. But actually talking about a podcast and you might say cut that don't don't include this in but don't you have a second podcast that is meant to be coming out? Oh,

Max Booth III 33:59

yeah. It's happening. Yeah, I mean, I never said when it would happen. It's gonna happen to the two of us, my parents will and Michelle, soon to be my wife. We will be focusing on that actual the book fest. So sometime after April. We have all those fancy new microphones I was telling you about, shall we begin rebuilding. So we will be using those and then probably rebuilding at the bookshop? It's called Dobby yields. It's going to be a podcast about writing and publishing. I'm excited about it. It's gonna take a lot of time in the NFL, it's not going to be like an interview show. Like each episode will just be a deep dive into some type of subjects related to writing and publishing. Like I know one of the fields episodes I want to do is just like, the history of discusses at think yes, for those who don't know, is the little like symbol that people use to break scenes up scenes up. It's like the three dots between scenes. rake is called a Dinkus. I think that's really funny. So I just wanted to like, do this geeky episode about them. And that will kind of set the tone they both will episodes. But also I want to do an episode about like, I want to do many episodes about like, writing controversies that like once it will happen right this second play doing deep dives into ones that have happened. Yeah, middle recent one. I definitely want to do an episode on is the I think she was a YA and Rachel who faked Shalom suicide. Definitely. Episode in that way. Yeah. So I think that's gonna be fine. I think it's gonna be nice not to be doing interviews all the time. Because I find they can be sometimes be exhausting, just from the one I do. And it will be nice to just have the freedom to refilled like tiny chunks at a time and then piece them together later on. I think that's gonna make things pretty easy. Maybe? I don't know. We'll see.

Michael David Wilson 35:57

It sounds like there'll be a really good mix. Because I mean, with things like the Dinkus episode, it's gonna be more akin to something like grammar, Gil, but then, I mean, if you're doing a deep dive into the YA offer that like I think I would imagine those are the ones that are going to get more lessons because it's almost like a kind of true crime. What the fuck? Exactly? Like, I mean, the

Max Booth III 36:27

way I'm I want to treat it is I'm gonna do all the research, and basically tell it to my spouse, kind of like the dollop. And the way we will she has no idea what any of this is about to explain. I feel so many old like fucking writing crazy stories in the writing industry, like even going back to like Hemingway. And so Phil, I think it'd be interesting.

Michael David Wilson 36:51

Yeah, yeah. And there's a number of publishers that you know, they kind of disappeared very quickly and shut down. You could if you choose to try and also find out like, where are they now? What are they doing? Yeah.

Max Booth III 37:10

came to mind, Shane Staley on the show and say, Hey, I mean, thinks will eventually pay me royalties. But what's going on with you, man? You suck in that job.

Robb Olson 37:22

So when you when you explain what the podcast is going to be, the first thing that came to mind for me was, that is very research intensive. So in the short time that I did the podcast with lit reactor, I kind of had not the same idea. But I had an idea to do topical discussions about things. So like, I did a episode about grammar. In an episode about interviewing people, I did an episode about reviews and stuff. And the thing I found that was vastly different from what I had done in the past was like, I needed to either a know my shit about what I was talking about, because I was like, going to be the expert on a topic, or I needed to find people who knew this stuff, and then know how to draw that information out of them. So that to me was a very, like research and preparation heavy situation. However, I don't know if I have the resources that you have as far as like connections to people. But I would say, anyhow, anyway, I can help with that. That sounds like a fantastic podcast, and I would love to support you if there's something I can

Max Booth III 38:27

take you. I think, also just like the fact that we've been involved in publishing, like, over a decade now, we've probably like have picked up on things that most people don't know about that we haven't even realized we know yet. So I think once we begin during the podcast, we might have some good insightful info this shoe. I'm excited about it. I it's just so difficult right now to really begin with that until actual, absolutely, well, that's like my mantra lately. After April. Everything's gonna be okay.

Michael David Wilson 39:06

I mean, you have to be right. You have so much the moment though, I mean, like, we've genuineness is even sunk in that you and Laurie, you're actually getting married as well, because, you know, most people when they're getting married, that is the kind of big event that they're leading up to that they're probably focusing on for six months a year, that kind of thing. And it's like, obviously, you've been aware of that for a long time. But you've also like, right, well, we've got this new podcast, you had the Kickstarter, you just got a bookshop that does, does the festival which is obviously where you're getting married, but also does a fucking whole festival to plan to so I mean, how has that sunk in and as you and Laurie have been together and live together for such a long time anyway, I mean, what What if anything do you think will change with the dynamic and with being married

Max Booth III 40:07

well not much is gonna change besides like the different legal last name and yeah, I don't know not much else I mean at this point will pretty much common law melee anyway so the whole beginning melee thing definitely feels almost like an afterthought with everything else going on but um yeah real nice real excited we've wanted to do this for a while but we just haven't mostly because he'll send Medicaid would have gotten kicked off if we had gotten married but um for kicking him off anyway I think is in place I don't have a job and emails don't make any money anyway. So yeah, this is seen is felt about time and we thought it would be good to do that the book fast because what else are we going to have, like all actual friends in town? And plus, it's fairly funny to me that makes someone buy a badge to a wedding. That just makes me laugh. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, we she just got to dress it and I just got some fancy clothes and we still haven't gotten rings or anything yet. That's where we have some idea of what we want to get. But we need to go get your fingernail size still. We need to get the license taken care of with the county. My friend Andrew Hill bill is going to be officiating it. He is I think he's gonna be dressed up as Dracula. So that should be fun. Yeah. I think that answers the question.

Michael David Wilson 41:45

Yeah. So very exciting. But God, I hate that, like, you know, in so many countries, that there are things like, Oh, well, if you get married or even if you're not married, then this kind of medication or benefit will or won't be taken away. And it it just makes me so fucking sad when it's like, shouldn't it be a universal human right that you get the fucking medication that you need? Obviously, no question. And it's not like wow, Michael, you've brought up a compelling point that none of us ever thought about. But it makes me so angry like, god dammit, that's where money should be going to look after people to give people medication that they need. But

Max Booth III 42:37

yes, I mean, the only the main medication he's on now. It's just like ADHD medication, which isn't boom, because yeah, he's pretty fucking crazy without it. Well, not so much. Now. He used to be mill. So but um, back in the day, though, I mean, he was fucking going through chemo. So like, it was really important not to fuck with any of that. But he has been in remission for a while now.

Robb Olson 43:01

Yeah, my, my cancer journey cost me costs $350,000. So wow,

Max Booth III 43:09

what did you

Robb Olson 43:09

have? lymphoma?

Max Booth III 43:12

Okay. Yeah, he had leukemia.

Robb Olson 43:15

Yeah. Healthy. No, thank you, thankfully. Very good. That's good. But expensive and stupid. So I'm on like, Michael side with that. Well, yeah, people should just have the right to access to the treatment that they need.

Max Booth III 43:30

Yeah, it seems odd that like, the way just humans have the fucking like, way. We've all gone like, oh, let's just invent money. Oh, now you'll sick. Well, now you have to give us some of the stuff that I invented. But we all gonna die.

Michael David Wilson 43:48

Yeah, yeah, I frequently think about how fucking stupid and arbitrary money is, but also how vital and important to the society the people have created. It is it's a weird kind of paradox. But yeah, it also just for your money.

Max Booth III 44:09

This will be a good moment for Patreon plug.

Michael David Wilson 44:14

Money is bullshit. So why don't you give us some of yours? patreon.com forward slash this is all right. You have a Patreon as well, Max. So why don't you plug yours too?

Max Booth III 44:27

Yeah, patreon.com/p m m publishing. Rob,

Michael David Wilson 44:35

you got to go to fun.

Robb Olson 44:40

Money these guys.

Max Booth III 44:42

Yeah, if people keep asking us this, like if we're going What is it called? When you like, Oh, if we're going registered, cool. We just say no, I don't know what that even means.

Robb Olson 44:53

Do you want a little life hack on registries because I worked at Bed Bath and Beyond at one point in my life. You can where you can, you can register there and people buy stuff for you, you return it, you get cash. That's like,

Max Booth III 45:08

despite what we will say, on the podcast, I do like money. So this says, This sounds great.

Robb Olson 45:14

So if you're gonna if you choose to register anywhere Bed Bath and Beyond will return stuff for cash at least that's how it used to be. So that that could be helpful for you.

Michael David Wilson 45:21

Did that happen a lot?

Robb Olson 45:23

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it was like the whole plan. I think.

Max Booth III 45:28

I love it. We have no plans of doing a registry all but um, obviously, if anyone wants to give us a gift, I don't know what you'd give someone a gift film when they get married. We will accept it, and then take it the Bed Bath and Beyond money, please.

Michael David Wilson 45:48

Well, love it. Lovely. I mean, I've mentioned this briefly in a previous episode, but, you know, you've wrote a script as well, for this, which, you know, I guess you're currently looking at what, what to do with it and went to Shell fair, and things like that. But I mean, for me, the script was a lot lighter than the novella. You know, and it was, it was, there was more, there were more comedic elements to it, which is definitely not to say it was not a comedy. But there was more comedy within it. And I guess to it means that I came to this book, from a unique perspective, haven't read the script first. But I mean, I wonder when you wrote the script, did you consciously decide to make it lighter? Or do you think just the kind of scope of the medium, and it meant that you just couldn't double down as much on that bleakness and that atmosphere? And perhaps, too, you know, you needed I guess, a more coherent story in terms of like, classic narrative structure.

Max Booth III 47:05

Yeah, with a screenplay. I don't think I intentionally thought okay, it needs to be milled, comedic. But I think it just came from the fact that with a screenplay, mill conscious of like, what's going to be on the screen and trying to keep an audience audience's attention. But like, with a book, you can, like dig deep into someone's mindset and thought process and it's difficult to do that with a movie or a book, you can get pretty bleak and depressing just by like recounting things someone like, is observing. And he can't quite do that with a script without it being super old, tedious, I think. And plus, I don't know, sills just scenes that come out funny. When you watch them compared to when you read them as well, I think you can play around with like, how scenes pieced together on mill and how the transitions happen happen. Like in the script I've written, which I mean, there's no plans at the moment to make it and I'm probably going to be doing lots of revisions on it. So it's like a but I think a pretty funny scene of the mom and dad having this fucking huge fight. That cuts to them having just this really graphic sexy. Yeah. And it would be it would be difficult to piece that together the one in the Vela via via prose, I think. But with a script, you can just have the image fill. And the the person reading the script or watching the movie, they figure for him or either way.

Michael David Wilson 48:40

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, there's one bit in the script as well, and I was waiting to see if it would turn up or if he would turn up in the novella to do with the Truman Show. It does involve a very literal appearance from Jim Carrey. And in a way I was disappointed. Jim Carrey didn't burst through the door in the novella, but at the same time, it feels like it just wouldn't have fit with the mood particularly at that moment in time, but I I laughed so much when I messaged you straight away, like, what the fuck and I was, like, you've just cast Jim Carrey in your script. This is a very specific thing.

Max Booth III 49:34

I felt right it felt right. It will be fairly funny to me if this script if it gets me into a movie, and if we somehow got him to be in it, that would be incredible. It

Michael David Wilson 49:45

would be amazing.

Max Booth III 49:48

I would be unstoppable. My ego would be insane if that would happen. But since definitely some things I've written in the script that I've thought about and kind of like wish I had Put them into the novella. But the villains out now, so it's too late. But also a lot of the things I love about the scripts that you read that no one else will read. It wouldn't it wouldn't make much, much sense in the book due to the way I've presented point of view, a lot of classic curl and movie moments, I think in the script that just wasn't real from the way the book is written. So I do feel like they will two very different things, coasting on different mediums. So I'm pretty content with a novella. I'm content with that screenplay, too. But evidently, I still need to do notes on it actually know some people. So I guess I'll just do some notes. And maybe we'll shop it around. Or maybe I'll do some middle notes you'll see sent out to me.

Michael David Wilson 50:52

I wonder if the note giver is listening or watching this broadcast now?

Max Booth III 50:59

I can kill to you. He is not. Yeah. He's not even answering my email.

Michael David Wilson 51:06

God, I really hope he's not listening to this.

Max Booth III 51:10

I'm just trying to there is no email and then just drag around. I like to ride around as well. No.

Michael David Wilson 51:19

You go. Well, we're going to go from here. And there is still so much that I can say about Indiana deaths. And what I'm wondering because we've nearly spoken for an hour if we should, you know, at least touch on some of the other stories. But I mean, Rob, did you want to talk about other aspects of Indiana def Sung? Before we do that,

Robb Olson 51:44

I actually managed to get through the stuff that I really wanted to say. And it was excellent to hear you guys talk about it as well. I'm satisfied with our discussion. Here's the thing. I would love to hear, like, in the future, what other people who read it have to say because like, it is a hugely impactful thing. And I think it's just want one final note. I think that because Michael, you had brought in this, you had brought this up before about how it was a bold choice to start the collection with this story. And I just want to say I can't think of a different way you could have organized these stories. I think it's just such a tone setter for what else is to come. That I can't imagine it going somewhere. I can't imagine it being the final story. I think it needs to be the opener. And I love it. I love it when collection start with like a real just punch in the gut. Because it's like it's like a promise, kind of in a way. And so it's like, if this is the first story like What else am I in four? And you can kind of make a decision like, oh, I don't know if I'm up for this or you can you can be like Challenge accepted. Show me what else you got. So I feel like this was a really strong way to start the collection. And I honestly can't think of a different way that that it could have been assembled.

Max Booth III 53:15

Well, thank you. I will say the only other thing that I've like gotten a lot of like, from those who have read it then the one like common thing people bring up is ice buckets. Why are people talking about ice buckets? They really like every person who has read it and talk to me have brought up ice buckets. Don't think it was gonna be a big deal but evidently striking, striking.

Robb Olson 53:43

Well, we know where their minds lingers.

Michael David Wilson 53:45

I mean, I know it, it seemed like an eminently practical solution. So yeah, yeah. So Oh, free of agreement, but apparently we're not ready. We were like, why wouldn't you?

Robb Olson 54:02

What are they doing?

Max Booth III 54:04

It's gonna have a wide opening. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And you anyway, I like goats. That's why I like goats. Having a wide opening,

Michael David Wilson 54:21

right, you are talking to the wrong co host of this. All right. Yeah. If you want to talk about and more laughing then the Bob Pastorella The, the camera man as he's known in those circles. But I mean,

Robb Olson 54:37

I'm naive about whatever you're saying and horrified

Max Booth III 54:40

to Oh, if you know, you know.

Robb Olson 54:44

I don't know.

Michael David Wilson 54:45

What I like to do when when Max is on the show is make a lot of in jokes and references that people may or may not understand. Now, Rob, if you would listen to me Three single Max booth, this is our appearance, then you would have noticed that these are some things we've seen magically mentioned before. However, I'm not sure if we ever fully explained context because the beauty of the India gives me and Max might have made the joke off air or in a phone conversation but still applies. It's still content for these. This Is Horror episodes.

Robb Olson 55:25

Yeah, it's your world, man. It's your world. That's right.

Michael David Wilson 55:30

You're still living in it. Anyway. Oh, yeah.

Robb Olson 55:36

That's all horror.

Michael David Wilson 55:39

That's what he likes to say. Anyway, I mean, I guess one final thing with Indiana def song is just like, I mean, the script I felt had more ambiguity in terms of what was going on. And the novella, it felt like with the novella, it made more sense, but then it's like, is it because I'd read the script before to have kind of more context, but I mean, yeah, particularly. I mean, I would say two thirds of the way through the script, I was like, I'm loving what I'm reading, but I have no fucking idea how Max is gonna pull any of this together to have some sort of kind of conclusion where all the elements are satisfying. And yet, you did. But particularly like the jaundice, man, I felt was a way more ambiguous figure. Like I felt having read the script like okay, is is the jaundice man and the protagonist, actually the same character? I still think there's a reading that that is that that could be a possibility. But I, I do think this is gonna be

Max Booth III 56:55

a few people who have read the novella have emailed me with that same suspicion. So who's those who haven't read the script? Just read the novella have emailed me saying they believe perhaps that that they all the same pilson and I have declined to comment on that.

Michael David Wilson 57:15

Yeah, I mean, that that is, you know, the reaction to any theory. I mean, Caffrey code you said, it's like, even if somebody says something you didn't know that, that is bullshit. That is not what I was thinking that oh, let them have it. Let the kind of amorphous continue. But I do think people will be talking about it, because there is a number of ambiguous notes particularly as to who or what you noted, John, this man is, you know, it's the the protagonist, is the I mean, yeah, it is more explicit about him being like the caretaker, but it's like it. Is he still alive? Is this a supernatural? entity? Like the there are readings in? In both? Well, I

Max Booth III 58:02

say out, I'll say I'm excluding the script, and just a novella. We don't we'll see the John, This man interact with anybody besides the kid. So I think that helps with the MBA. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 58:15

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, since since we've been so kind of indulgent in terms of spoilers and things. I mean, Rob, I wonder did what were your interpretations of the jaundice man? And apart from feeling kind of very depressed and anxious after you'd read it? I mean, what were your kind of feelings in terms of the piece that you just experienced and what had happened there?

Robb Olson 58:43

Well, I, here's what and this is probably benefits from everything you guys just said, like, as far as like a clarity of my thought of things. But like, in a way, from my mind that likes to just kind of pick apart storytelling. If this was somehow the protagonist, it would basically imply that somehow the protagonist of a different age was able to go back and interact with the younger protagonist. And having access to that type of like, ability, the one thing they chose to do was just go hang out in this like hotel. So like, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's, like, there's a, there's a stretching of credibility of that type of thing. But like, they're like, I don't know, they, my mind goes all over on it. But I think that what I would like to think of with that specific character is that it could be someone who ended up a little more okay than they were, who wanted to like, give hope or something like that to someone who they when they when they were very vulnerable, like that would be a cool read for me. But the mechanics that didn't why's that it would take to get that person in the place to be able to provide that support is like kind of incredible. So if that were the case, I would think that's almost better. Because it's like, if you had world, like, if you had the ability to do something that would literally redefine the world, and that's what you chose to do. That means that this is a situation that really matters to you. So I like that's all I'm gonna say about that make

Max Booth III 1:00:24

sense? I went and found in the email, I'm going to read without permission, I'm sure it's fine. BL Yego, the guy who wrote negative space, him and I are friends, and he read a copy of it. And this is one like, small thing he said to me about what he thought about the novella, that he took it as a story about a man trying to love the child, he used to be a wanting the child village and of himself to love the man, he will eventually become. That sounds cool to me. You know, no comment from me beyond that, but sounds cool. I like that. Maybe that's my man. Maybe not. Maybe I just wrote some fucking novella, and then think about it.

Robb Olson 1:01:13

The other thing would, would, there would be an implication about and this is me, just my brain picks things apart. And I apologize, because it kind of probably ruins the fun a little bit. But like, there will be an implication that like, if it wasn't somehow tied to the original protagonist, someone else independently arrived at understanding how teeth work. And then also had a relationship with the only other person who knew about this. So like, again, it implies some things that you can kind of like draw conclusions how you will?

Michael David Wilson 1:01:43

Yeah. No comment. The next story in the collection is you are my neighbor. Which I first ran. Yes.

Max Booth III 1:02:00

Sorry to interrupt you, we have a slight delay. So like, I think you'll then tell him that I begin talking and then you continue that fucks me up. What I was gonna say was, I think I may be screwed up with having this really can proceed the novella, because someone messaged me when they read like an ALC of this collection. And because the novella is in second Pilsen, and the title of the second step really is you ill my navel. They didn't realize this Julie had changed. It feels just like this. This kid is going through some shit.

Michael David Wilson 1:02:40

Oh my god. And if I just read it all is like, Hey, dude, it was a novel. It's only a read loses his virginity in fish, which we obviously discussed as much as needs to be discussed in a previous life, because like you all my neighbor, first read that in miscreations. But I know that we've already spoken a little bit about this story, you know, on previous episodes, but I know that Rob has some things to say. So I'm gonna hand this one over to you.

Robb Olson 1:03:19

Well, I, the only thing I really have to say, again, we might have to split like I've had kind of different like guide, goalposts or whatever for how we talk about short stories, because there's not an easier way to avoid spoilers, but like,

Max Booth III 1:03:37

I think we've already safely established this whole episode is just spoiling the collection. So please go ahead. So

Michael David Wilson 1:03:44

the whole episode now? Not not just

Robb Olson 1:03:49

the whole thing? Yeah. Well, you got such

Michael David Wilson 1:03:51

a niche audience now. Got people who who have to have read the entire collection.

Max Booth III 1:03:59

But so before we continue, I just want to make like a like a comment. Maybe this is different than what you guys do. I typically, like when I read a book after I finish it, I then go and Google and try to find like interviews with the people who wrote it. It's usually it's usually not the other way around. Well, I listened to the interview and then go find the book. I typically seek out conversations about a book once I finish it, so I think I think this is safe. I think we're doing an okay thing. But it's not my shows. I mean, it's up to you guys. Autumn, Autumn met the house trying to deal with us. We made them ultimate

Robb Olson 1:04:40

ultimatum. Ultimately, we can do this is what you're trying to say. Yeah, I've gotten a lot less precious about spoilers over the years. This particular story, you are my neighbor. I think that the thing that it was a very clean experience for me of just feeling like this horrible thing that happened to me is actually preferable to the horrible shit that I see as my kind of day to day life. Okay, it just it was a kind of a clean experience. For me. It was like pretty basic, but like, that's what I came out of it with. And it was like, it seems on its face to be not a preferred outcome. But like, for whatever reason, in this specific situation, you know,

Max Booth III 1:05:28

I don't see the ending of this really, as positive or negative. I think it's, I think it can be taken both ways. Maybe the opinion, just your outlook in life. Like it's almost strangely helpful in an odd way. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of liked how that ended up being mean, who wouldn't want to just switch places and be this odd create jewel, just existing in the basement?

Robb Olson 1:05:55

Especially with the promise that you now know, if the rules are continuing, then you could you could always find a way to get away? Yeah. Yeah.

Max Booth III 1:06:07

Hi. Yeah, I am. I wrote this. I wrote a book you call it? No, I didn't, little man. I was gonna say I wrote a pilot like that a pilot, but a small script and Senate the creep show to consider film episode, but thinking around strangely, that was a scraps I did. And they will respond responded to bad anecdote. That's anti climatic.

Robb Olson 1:06:37

Because that story is gonna come up later.

Max Booth III 1:06:41

This one, I think, will also make a good episode of the group show. Yeah, absolutely.

Michael David Wilson 1:06:45

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, as I said, before, we have discussed this in a previous episode, and you spoke about, you know, your childhood and doing similar things. But one thing you mentioned in the story notes, and I don't think you mentioned this on the podcast before, but you said that, like, you found out later that you're at your real life neighbor, had a mountain lion in their basement. And I know, surely, you're just saying this for comedic effect. This is one of these things that Madison said.

Max Booth III 1:07:26

So the truth really is we have this this house that lives across the street to the left. So myself and some of the kids from the house directly across the street from us, which is for some reason, continuously break the garage, when now and then they would fix it, and then we break it again, because we channeled tillable kids, and we thought it was funny, and Time passed. And then I found out that one of the my friends, eldest prep for him and his friends are broke into the house when no one was home. And they found the mountain lion in a cage in the garage. And that the garage, the basement, and I mean, I can't say with 100% certainty that that is true, strictly. But that is what I was told. And it sounds incredible. So I choose to believe it.

Michael David Wilson 1:08:15

He makes you wonder, do you know which came first the broken window or the mountain lion? Like did they get a mountain lion as a security response? They're like, the regular alarm sheet we're getting a mountain lion

Max Booth III 1:08:32

I think I think well they my men are your best films is a kid who broke in thing called the police like anonymously. And they came in like took the mountain lion away. Right now. It's kind of fuzzy in my head now. It's possible.

Michael David Wilson 1:08:47

Your neighbor your family broke his window and stole his fucking mountain.

Max Booth III 1:08:54

Who was also his wife?

Michael David Wilson 1:08:57

Yeah, yeah.

Max Booth III 1:08:58

I mentioned that in the silly notes, but he was merely legally married. Legally, yeah. Yeah, you can do anything legally.

Michael David Wilson 1:09:12

You're about to I mean, you're you're you're getting married soon. So yeah. That's true.

Max Booth III 1:09:22

Yeah. Not yet. Um, yeah. Do you think of a time

Michael David Wilson 1:09:28

would you and Laurie consider opening up their marriage to include a side party that would be a mountain lion? Is that a discussion you've had?

Robb Olson 1:09:37

Or any large cat really

Michael David Wilson 1:09:39

well let's let's not confuse the situation.

Max Booth III 1:09:43

I do have allergies with cats though so maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe a different animal like a giant pig one of those man eating pigs pigs the mafia us that'd be cool.

Robb Olson 1:09:56

Yeah. Like it's the pigs name is not pearl.

Max Booth III 1:09:59

Oh, I'll get I'll give it one if you don't I mean,

Michael David Wilson 1:10:03

and what you mean?

Max Booth III 1:10:05

Come, I will come I will come on a pig. That's what I'm saying. I've done it once. I'll do it again.

Michael David Wilson 1:10:22

Next story is blood test, which we've also spoken about in a previous episode before and I think, yeah, I think I first read that one in the great Jones Street app, which was an amazing story app, particularly for writers because they were paying really good rates. And then great app. They went out of business. Yeah, yeah.

Max Booth III 1:10:51

Yeah. What about it? What do you want to know?

Michael David Wilson 1:10:54

Well, I mean, we can just link to the episode. It's very closely based on A Modest Mouse, and

Max Booth III 1:11:06

if you think I'm gonna get in trouble for that, if I keep omitting that's what's going on. Like, do I need to be more coy about the inspiration?

Michael David Wilson 1:11:13

My Well, I would not admit to that, but

Max Booth III 1:11:24

if anyone says anything, I can say I was being sarcastic.

Michael David Wilson 1:11:27


Max Booth III 1:11:30

Like, I feel like that was like be okay. If you've level like accused of a crime and like, say, if you killed somebody. We we have you been into it? On camera? You go. I was being sarcastic. They would have to let you go.

Michael David Wilson 1:11:46

Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you Oh, hold up in code.

Max Booth III 1:11:51

Well, you live in Japan, so that's different. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of them in Japan.

Michael David Wilson 1:11:58

There's not a lot of sarcasm in Japan. See?

Max Booth III 1:12:01

See? Yeah. So they will and will stand? He'll in the United States. I mean, it's like a common thing to like, say, oh, yeah, I killed my wife who's a mountain lion that I die. I hid the body in a dumpster or you will just fucking around. You're just being sarcastic.

Robb Olson 1:12:22

Yeah, this all sounds like a modern reimagining of the stranger by Camus, right? It's kinda silly, or am I getting to do like,

Max Booth III 1:12:30

I haven't read that. It's all last silk as a minute.

Robb Olson 1:12:34

Well, I mean, there's a there's a death. And there's a lot of misunderstanding the main character because of the way he acts. So I feel like there's some parallels to be drawn.

Max Booth III 1:12:45

Well, that sounds fun. I should read that. I didn't know. That's what it was about. That sounds fun. I like misunderstandings.

Robb Olson 1:12:54

It doesn't go in his favor. Um, that's a spoiler kind of, but it doesn't work out, as you would hope.

Max Booth III 1:12:59

Does anyone say don't be a stranger now. And the buck? Is that real expression comes from

Robb Olson 1:13:08

though I wish because that would make that don't be a stranger saying. Way more fun. Interesting. I don't know. Anyway. Yeah. No, that's not what Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 1:13:20

Okay. Well, unless you've got anything pressing, you want to say about blood dust or Modest Mouse roll, but then we will move to the next story.

Robb Olson 1:13:32

Well, let's Yeah, let's, we've been we got to press on, I think to a to a degree here.

Michael David Wilson 1:13:37

Yeah. Well, when we talk about fish, we get to go forward because we spoke about fish we spoke about in the attic of the universe. Those are in the previous episodes. So we're jumping in to disintegration is quite painless. Which Yeah, I felt was one of the more kind of violent stories and it at times, it almost had Lansdale and David J scale vibes, but also comes from a Lovecraft quote, The Story title. And I thought that was quite a good way to get into I love craft themed anthology. It's like, well, if you don't really like, you know, love craft, and that kind of cosmic horror is like, let's just take your quote and have that in not even like inspired a story because I think you've got a story idea before it's like, let's somehow tie that in.

Max Booth III 1:14:38

Yeah, I didn't read I've never read like a lever is really the completion. It comes from Australia called from beyond. And I found it by going to Goodreads and looking at Lovecraft quotes. That's a good that's a good phrase. And yeah, I was invited to a Lovecraftian anthology and I don't read Lovecraft, but I do I mean, So basically Kashmir curl, and I can do that. And it was rejected. And then like a year or so later, Doug Miranda was like well can we can republish it. They said, Well, he sounds like a cool so yeah, he wants to do a second volume and then for some reason, I guess he decided that he'd like to after a while, so I was like, Yeah, Dad, please calm the fuck down

Michael David Wilson 1:15:36

I like that. You know, Doug has bought a number of your stories. He's always said the kinds of things about your work and apropos of nothing get like this bizarre, it's not even an impression is interpreted. That doesn't really resemble him.

Max Booth III 1:15:54

But yeah, you know, that's why that's why I think is funny.

Michael David Wilson 1:15:58

Yeah, well, dogs are fine. Our views are hopefully still after that interjection

Max Booth III 1:16:07

mean, there's also nothing wrong with my impression, I think. I mean, that's just my interpretation of the event happened. We have no full tax. vocalise. I just imagine that's how it sounds I don't actually know.

Michael David Wilson 1:16:21

For people who want to know they can listen to us or episodes we've

Max Booth III 1:16:27

if you're mad if you're mad, I was just being sarcastic. So you can't Yes a stop now. i Yeah. Besides the Australia was inspired by that was a dog shaking at my feet. This Julie was styled by. When I was a kid. We have these dunes which are like the sandy little hills around. I don't quite understand how dunes will be honest. But that's what people would call them and they will indeed Sandy. And weasels, like a missile, a rumor mill that a homeless cannibal lived in the dunes. And one day, this swivel grill, my age was like, Hey, let's go find this cannonball. And I was like, oh, man, I am about to get laid. I am eight years old. Let's do it. And

Michael David Wilson 1:17:25

surprised how old you were. And you'd already established she was a young girl. So

Max Booth III 1:17:34

I didn't want to have to be sarcastic again. So basically. I was wrong. I was also as I still am a really chubby Filson. And I had difficulty maneuvering at these dunes. And we also had bicycles that we will try to push up. And then at one point, we both fell. And then she got sad because the bike fell on me and she ran home crying. Just went home. Nothing happened. I think maybe she was trying to find this cannibal, like legitimately. And I don't know what I was doing. Just went home, and be honest. And that for the first time as an eight year old boy, wishing I was dead.

Michael David Wilson 1:18:19

I was smiling up until like, probably shouldn't continue smiling. year olds wishing they were dead.

Max Booth III 1:18:27

Or something kind of inherently funny about a suicidal like taboo, don't you think?

I mean, I do. I think it's funny. But um, you guys don't have to agree with me. As the podcast is rebuilding. I know the truth. Yeah, like just like a kid who's like had enough like, this, this fucking this fucking universals. Fuck this, just like a tiny, tiny child. Who knows nothing.

Michael David Wilson 1:19:04

I mean, I imagine that probably here's what Bill Burr was like as a toddler. He was like being permanently and yeah, you did with the world. Yeah. I think like I think Bilbo was more offensive to max than when I was younger. I don't I'm a fan. Okay.

Max Booth III 1:19:31

Yeah, I just said

Robb Olson 1:19:33

I'm trying to think of what child actor would best portray the emotions that you were talking about in that eight year old like, probably nail that like, beaten down by the world kind of.

Max Booth III 1:19:47

I don't know any child axles now. Like, do we mean like back when they were kids? Like, from whenever

Michael David Wilson 1:19:54

you're thinking about totally choking or something?

Max Booth III 1:19:57

I don't know. I can't think of anyone I mean Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 1:20:01

Abigail what was the relevance of knowing now or then you didn't have a

Max Booth III 1:20:12

podcast baby. Silence. Okay keep talking this podcast and one on one follow up questions I'll tell you I'll tell you some kids who probably wish they were alive

will see that you will see the Twilight Zone movie about you those kids which they will live. Oh, well, thanks to John Landis. What a great fit what a great and Phil and Phil miracle.

Michael David Wilson 1:20:48

I don't even know what to say or where to start with. What the fuck happened there. It's probably best that we don't start and we just absolutely move on. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, that's the suggestion. We

Max Booth III 1:21:10

crossed the line.

Michael David Wilson 1:21:12

Nothing to say now like you're egging me on.

Yeah, now you've been like, whoa, you crossed the line almost makes me be like, no, no, we'll talk about the johnlanders Twilight Zone incident for the next half an hour. And as a challenge.

Max Booth III 1:21:33

I would I should. I should have written this freely about it for this collection. But if I guess it wouldn't fit. Because we'll set like a family aspect to it. For me, I'll write as well collections with dead kids involved. And

Michael David Wilson 1:21:46

there'll be Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it'll be

Max Booth III 1:21:49

called. It'll be called, will be called the Helen capital pill and saying. Oh, God, damn, I can't believe you guys invited me back. Yeah. So next. So next really? What do we have? Your favorite?

Michael David Wilson 1:22:12

I didn't say a few more things. But you're right. Yeah. Let's just jump into scraps.

Max Booth III 1:22:18

scraps. Yeah, what do you guys want to know,

Michael David Wilson 1:22:21

I feel and people. This seems like, a bad time to come in, given what we've just been talking about. But I genuinely think you're a really empathetic person.

I wish that we not just been talking about what we were talking about. And I wish you hadn't made a helicopter parenting clip. But as you say, sometimes that is just podcast in Baby, baby. I mean, and I imagine, too, that a lot of your empathy probably stems from like, the kind of background and a childhood that you had as well. And so I mean, it's probably never more evident than in scraps. And, I mean, I remember, you know, when when you were talking to me about working at the hotel, that you'd frequently have kind of people from, I guess, like disadvantaged backgrounds and homeless people and, like addicts that would come in to like the hotel and near the management, we're not a fan of that, but you know, you'd help them out. And so then this is based on, you know, kids that actually did turn up at the hotel. So I wondered if you could speak a little bit about that.

Max Booth III 1:24:02

Absolutely. I'm struggling to bring this the, to begin this without sounding like I'm talking myself up. But there's also no way to do this without doing that. But I do believe like, if I wasn't so focused like on, like in writing and publishing that I would definitely be exploring like a career like in social will, because I do enjoy that type of stuff. I did end up discovering that while we were looking at the hotel specifically because I would often run into those types of situations because I was the only one on duty at the whole hotel and it was just me, watching over the light from 11 to seven and some crazy shit would happen. Sometimes I would, I would in candle people like pie and Vilius drugs and people having PTSD The you know, the attacks, and I've been able to call the cops because I know what happens way too often when you call the cops and someone going through a crisis usually doesn't help them. So I was spent many nights just talking to people and trying to calm them down and helping them do various things. Yeah, scraps is inspired by a couple of I assume homeless kids who will come into the hotel every night just kind of asking for food. And management knew about it. And they were like, Hey, don't don't let them inside. But that seems crazy to me. Because why wouldn't you? So yeah, I would let them hang out in the lobby and eat food, bananas and ice cream and so forth. And one day I had a few days off and I came back and they never return on so I am pretty sure whoever was doing the shift in between my days off probably called the cops on them. So I don't know what happened with them. But yeah, that's what the spiraled scraps because something similar happens with a guy working the night shift at a restaurant. And those kids shown out to be black eyed kids, which I find really cool and creepy and I don't really watch enough movies and books about them. So as fun kind of exploring that type of cryptid hell no of Krypton sir rightfield I'm not sure what Thor can settled to you guys now. I don't know.

Michael David Wilson 1:26:38

I don't know what terminology you use. But cryptid feels like it. You know? It's 10 Gentle if not, yeah, yeah.

Max Booth III 1:26:49

I want to say creepy pasta related but this is coming from someone who sinful rather creepy pasta. So I don't know if I if I know what I'm talking about sale.

Michael David Wilson 1:26:59

Yeah. Every dates creepypasta. It feels like it's almost being kind of timeless in a sense. And like, Googling it. Modern phenomenon.

Max Booth III 1:27:14

My favorite creepypasta is ravioli.

Robb Olson 1:27:19

Sorry. I knew see that. On the horizon, I saw getting like bigger and bigger.

Max Booth III 1:27:29

Okay, I'm on Wikipedia, which cannot be edited by anyone who isn't completely you know, truthful. tabloid coverage of these creature builds have claimed that tales of black eyed children have existed since the 1980s. And it says indicated that this legend originated from 1996 postings written by someone in Texas on a ghost related mailing list. So looks like they will invent and then one of those email, spam things.

Robb Olson 1:27:59

It was Bob.

Michael David Wilson 1:28:00

That's exactly


Max Booth III 1:28:09

And if I recall, I'm not going to read all this with this Wikipedia shit. The whole thing of black eyed kids is they show up at your house in the middle of the night. Knocking and begging to be let in so they can I think make a phone call. Well, maybe they want something to eat. I can't remember exactly what the the mythos entail, but something like that.

Michael David Wilson 1:28:33

Yeah. And of course, I like the way that you've spun this with, you know, the character. Oh, in the protagonist is, you know. So even though we've spoiled most of the things I do try not to spoil things completely. You know, he's gone through his own things. There's been a tragedy involving, like, his own child. So I'm wondering, like, what where did that aspect of the story come from?

Max Booth III 1:29:06

Well, I think I'm trying I mean, I wrote this a while ago, so it's difficult to remember no, but if I had to, like guess I would imagine I came up with the idea of these kids wanting food and this guy like trying to help them and then it just made like a like logical sense. Like, give him this background of something bad happening to a kid them his own, which would make a meal likely that tried to like metaphorically adopt an advocate who needed his help. So just it was one thing after that in my brain, like oh, okay, so something bad happened to different kids. He had what happened? It was probably because of something he did. What could he have done? Oh, drunk driving. That makes sense, because now he's stuck in this shitty job and he's like, chained by I am a parole officer basically well he has no freedom even though he's out of prison at this point. And you know this strictly tell him maybe he just one thing after another or connected that. Yeah.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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