TIH 494: Carson Winter on Society’s Obsession with Violence, The Tide, and Fear of Dying

Michael David Wilson 0:07

Welcome to This Is Horror, a podcast for readers, writers and creators. I'm Michael David Wilson. In every episode alongside my co host, Bob Pastorella. We chat with the world's best writers about writing, life lessons, creativity, and much more. Now today, we are chatting with Carson winter, who recently released soft targets. This is the second part in our conversation with him. So if you'd like to listen to part one first and do go back to Episode 493 But as with all of these conversations, you really can listen in any order. Now in this episode, we get deeper into his brand new book soft targets. We talk about society's obsession with violence. And we learn a little bit about Carson's personal beliefs amongst many other topics. But before any of that, let us have a quick advert break.

Bob Pastorella 1:37

Author Carson Winter presents soft targets and develop new word horror out March 22. From tenebrous press a pair of Office drones to discover a loophole in time that makes some days less real than others, allowing them to act under Darkus impulses without fear of reprisal. Their morals become more slippery and their fantasies more violent. And soon they will have to decide what line they won't cross soft targets in timely reality bending novella about the easy surrender to violence in the addictive appeal of tragedy is entertainment. More information at tinnitus. press.com. impoverished college dropout, Nick is desperate for money. So he signs up for highly experimental study at the isolated drug court compound. Nick knows the study involves improving the human genome to extend life and he knows it involves some minor abdominal surgery. But he isn't prepared for the strange After Effects, the nausea, the itching, the unusual abdominal swelling, the internal squirming now available in paperback from mother horror and cemetery gates media. Book number six and a my dark library line corporate body by our A Busbee.

Michael David Wilson 2:41

Okay, well, with that said, here it is it is Carsten winter on desses hora. So we were talking about soft targets before. And so I mean, I wonder is this is relevant? somatically. And we touched on it when we mentioned Fight Club. Do you think as a society? We've always been obsessed with violence? And is this obsession growing? Or are we just more aware of it now?

Carson Winter 3:22

Oh, man, that's tough. I mean, I think I can only speak from my own perspective, and you know, my own history in life, but I feel like what kind of was the genesis of soft target was the idea that violence had become a sort of escapism, that had been, like, further perverted, that it had become the basis of all of our fantasies, in a way. I mean, if you look at, like what's popular in film, almost everything is an action movie. And of course, you know, I'm not saying we should not like anything with violence, but because I like tons of things with violence. I could subsist entirely on old samurai movies with geysers of blood. And, you know, John Wick movies, whatever, I love, all of that shit. But it doesn't make you think like, Okay, why, why do we have such a thirst? For this sense of catharsis, this idea that we need to physically dominate others, impose our will on others. And that kind of idea. Cross sec, was kind of a cross section with, you know, the mass shooting situation in America, and how I was personally reacting to it working at a grocery store at the time with my colleagues, and we just kind of it was so pervasive that it just became kind of a running joke for us that like, oh, you know, I can't wait till we get our mass shooting so we can go home early on Friday and stuff. And when I was thinking about it, I was like, well, that's really fucked. Why are we? How has violence become so normalized that you know, it's become a different kind of catharsis. It's not just kicking the ass of the bad guy in the movie. And you know, like a superhero movie or something. It's also, you know, hoping someone else kicks our ass just so we can escape capitalism for a day. So yeah, I think the whole topic of violence is very, very complex. And it's very interesting to look at on like, the societal level. And it yeah, we're surrounded by it. So it's almost impossible not talk about it makes me think almost, you know, I just had a recent discussion about this. Thomas legato, he's read tower where it kind of ends on the note of like, whether you're talking about, no matter what you're talking about, you're talking about the red tower. Sometimes I kind of wonder if that's how it is with violence, too.

Michael David Wilson 6:08

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I suppose the ultimate question, and we might not be able to answer this in this podcast, because it's probably something that has plagued people for decades, is just like, you know, I mean, we talk about that we all enjoy this violent entertainment, such as the John Wick movies, and certainly, for myself, like a lot of the video games that I enjoy, too. So yes, I mean, yeah, yes,

Carson Winter 6:45

we play first person shooter.

Michael David Wilson 6:49

So, I mean, it does beg the question, you know, when when does it become problematic? Because so so I mean, the problem is, as well, you know, we see, anytime there is a mass shooting or an act of mass violence, immediately, there will be certain people or certain sectors of the meat of the media that would then blame video games will blame certain types of music. And, you know, like, it is not, it's not that straightforward. And it's not that simple. I mean, of course off, then they will conveniently focus on different aspects. So like, you know, video games and music. They weren't focused on the lack of mental health provisions. You know? Yeah. So,

Carson Winter 7:54

it is, so you're so right, that it does, like the conversation seems to focus on the idea that the, all these different art forms are making us violent, it doesn't ever, you know, suppose that we are buying all these art forms, because we respond to violence that we like violence, somewhere deep inside of us, it triggers something in our brain that we like that we are responsible for the the consumption of this, but it's not arts fault. It's a it's a reflection of us. Arts, art is made by people and people, I think, are by and large, violent. And I think the kind of the scary truth is, is that, you know, this is a more of a societal malaise. It's not something easy to fix. It's absolutely mental health related. And I kind of feel like, what I like about fiction is that you can pack so much thought and meaning and complexity and layers into a story in a way that, you know, a sentence could never articulate, what everything we're experiencing with mass shootings in America, the way that like a story could and I feel like that's kind of what I was getting towards was soft targets when I was writing it is I was just, I was pumping everything I felt about the idea of violence as escape is, you know, the grind of capitalism, societal malaise, and you know, these these urges towards violence and stuff and kind of mixing it all into a pot and doesn't it doesn't provide anything really easy if you could take a moral from it. Maybe it would be go to fucking therapy. But yeah, it's It's tough. It's a it's a tough question. That's not easy to answer. Yeah,

Bob Pastorella 9:59

yeah. See it kind of like, you know, always kind of tie things back to media. And always think of stream. And one of the things I think of is like the the little things that they mentioned at the end, you know, and they even talked about this, in the big reveal at the end of the film, is that that the, you know, the slasher films and horror films and violence in media does does it create this issue, it simply makes them more creative. And so in other words, that, you know, here's the thing, it's like, you gotta, you gotta have like, either one, an imbalance somewhere, okay? Or it's in a passionate moment, you can have somebody who has, has had very minimal experience with any of the media that's out there, that's violent. But if something traumatic happens to that person, and they see someone harming someone that they care about, then they're going to pull back from their memory of whatever they watched. And they're going to want some type of physical retribution, they're basically at that point, they're going to lose their mind, if you see someone that you know, let's say that someone's you're in on a crowded street, and you see someone hit your your girlfriend, or your wife, or your one of your children or something like that, God forbid, and that person wrecks their car. And you've seen this, you could literally lose your mind. And in your, you want to find them with your fists, but if you've seen a movie that somebody took somebody with a crowbar, or tire iron, you know, then suddenly, you've gotten more creative. Where did you get that from? Well, I got it from watching a movie, you know. And that's where that stuff comes from. A lot of the times people want to put the blame on stuff, because on the media, because they feel like they can control it, it's tangible. You can't control or quantify a mental illness. And so those words, when those types try to do that, they can't they can't say, well, we need to we need to control mental illness, well, you're not going to control it, you can simply you know, try to acknowledge it and, and try to help people about it. But it's, it's a long, it's a long game with that. And it's not going to give you an answer real quick. So they instantly go well, it's the media, it's all the games, it's the music, it's this, it's that, because they can quantify that, and they feel like they can control it. And it's not really fair, to those of us who use that type of escapism as a form of release in a healthy manner. You know, it's like watching horror movies, as close as you can get to facing your fear. You have you have a safety net, you can, you know, turn off the movie, you can close the book. So I think it's, it is a complex thing. But I think that their reason to go to that is because they can quantify it in their mind some way that they can if they hey, if we if we ban this, we can stop this from happening. No, you're not really going to stop violence from happening, because you're not doing anything to address the actual, you know, catalyst of the incident. Yeah, totally.

Carson Winter 13:22

And I think, you know, one thing that was interesting, you just said that I was thinking about was that, you know, kind of the, the idea of, you know, I think it's almost a very classic male fantasy, almost, I bet people fantasize about this as someone you know, roughing up their girlfriend and having that, that, that social allowance of being able to act out and, you know, beat the shit out of someone and being able to feel valid and doing that, and, or something I always remember, you know, my wife was even telling me, oh, yeah, I had a dream. And I, there was a bank robber. And I stopped the bank robber, I beat the shit out of him and stuff. And it was awesome, you know. But I kind of think, Oh, another kind of element of this is that with all these power fantasies, the reason we're so attractive than now is I think, collectively, we feel really powerless in our society. And I think part it's partly because of how big the world is now. With the internet and stuff, we're in three different locations speaking over, you know, wires. The world is huge right now. And I kind of wonder, sometimes, you know, do we need these power fantasies because we feel so small, or even because we feel like, you know, our governments and countries are not reflecting our values or something. You know, again, it's just it's so complex and multifaceted. There's not a single answer. I think it would be hilarious. If somebody was like, You know what, let's just ban Grand Theft Auto and all the mass shootings stop tomorrow. I have the distinct feeling that is not going to happen. And that will not work. Because, yeah, as you said, it's it's not the media that's making these killers.

Michael David Wilson 15:13

Yeah, and I think, you know, a lot of soft targets it is taking, I mean, this fantasy that I, I feel a lot of people have fantasized or at least amused upon the idea of causing havoc for an ungrateful boss. Now, that fantasy might not have gone as far as actually shooting up the entire workplace. But this is like a kind of a mini act of violence. And I feel that soft targets, I mean, it shows us the reality of that it shows us the consequences of that. And it also shows us the two directions that we can go in as individuals, when actually confronting that head on. And, I mean, I think that is kind of what that is one of several things that kind of distinguishes soft targets from let's just say, like, a gratuitous kind of gore fest. I mean, this is showing you like, Well, yeah, you know, you could shoot up the workplace, but this, this is the reality like it, rather than making it kind of appealing, it makes it ugly, it shows you it's gonna fucking ruin you. You can't escape from what you've done. And that, I think, is one of many things that makes this such a good book. Yeah, well, thank

Carson Winter 16:54

you. And that's definitely something I kind of wanted to explore was, you know, I even I even think about, like, you know, bad dreams I've had or dreams where I've done bad things, or, you know, I wake up and you still, maybe you feel like a guilt or you know, a sense of shame as you're on your way to brush your teeth. But the The memories are, like fading, you can't remember what you dreamed, you know, unless you write it in a journal. Some people are better at this than I am. But I can never remember what I dream. But still, there's a lingering feeling of just something being wrong. And I really wanted to bring that in. And, you know, I think this book it is, and it isn't about mass shooters, it's there is mass shooting in it. But I don't feel like the protagonists are really our traditional like mass shooters in the media. They're more people with power fantasies, power fantasies that are given an opportunity to act on them.

Michael David Wilson 17:56

Yeah, yeah, I'd certainly agree with that. And this might seem a bit of a left field question, but in my mind, this ties in particularly to talking about the tired after, but I'm wondering, what are your personal beliefs in terms of what happens after death? And what are your philosophical schools of thought?

Carson Winter 18:25

I would say, well, first off, I'd say religion wise, I'm, I'm an atheist, I usually say I'm a spiritual as a DMV. I don't really have any sense of magic or the beyond. That's just kind of who I am. I love though like everything horror, everything supernatural, I love that shit. I love it all of that my art but personally, I don't really believe that I see that stuff is more symbolic ways to explore interesting concepts. Philosophically, man, that's that's tough because I feel like I bounced around a little bit. I think like, I I empathize with a lot of different philosophies. I like legati pessimism, but I wouldn't necessarily say like I'm a capital P pessimist, I, I respect it and some days you know, I definitely can fully relate to it, but I don't think I really live my my life as a pessimist. You know, I've seen a little bit of myself in existentialism and Absurdism but I, I really don't have like a unified worldview. yet. I feel like you know, I am pretty practical in my everyday life and I just, I actually to spoil I think there are hints of it in soft targets in the end is At what I what I really believe is that you got to cultivate your own garden is from Voltaire's candy, you got to exert control over what you can make your make your garden better the people around you better do your best to affect change, it'd be a positive influence in the your surroundings, but you you've got to avoid being caught up in a whole world that you can't control.

Michael David Wilson 20:34

Yeah. And do you think that's something that you achieve fairly easily? Is that a struggle? I mean, cuz it it? You know it can everything's

Carson Winter 20:45

a struggle.

Michael David Wilson 20:48

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Carson Winter 20:52

I mean, it's aspirational. I think I think I think all philosophy is a little aspirational and that we're all trying to fit it all together. And it's comforting to have like a unified worldview, where you can be like, I am a pessimist. Life is malignantly useless. I can live with this, and I can move forward. And that is my worldview. But it's life is very rarely one note, there's things happen in life. You know, I could, I could say, like, I'm an anti natal list. But, you know, I'd also be stoked for my buddy. If he was having a kid I'd slap him on the back I'd have I'd have a beer with him, I hang out with his kid down the road, I'm not going to, you know, Shun a friend for procreating. It's just it wouldn't be for me that kind of thing. Similarly, if someone is while I might, personally shun religion, I also get the comfort in it. And I know a lot of people who are religious, we're perfectly fine folks who, you know, have no interest in shoving it down my throat and they just they want to it gives them comfort, and they explore it in their own way. And they're very happy. So I mean, oh, man lives life just fucking bullshit. We just got to do the best we can, you know?

Michael David Wilson 22:13

That's the quote. Life's just fucking bullshit. Yeah, I mean, I mean, it sounds like your general kind of worldview is pretty similar to mine. And particularly the idea of just like, look, people can do what the fuck they want, if that makes them happy, provided they're not harming other people. That's kind of how it goes, you know, Believe what you want. Do what you want. Yeah, sure. You're not hurting others.

Carson Winter 22:46

Yeah, I'd say I'd probably align most with like an existentialist. But I also say, I'm not super educated in philosophy, and I could, there's probably a philosophy major out there that'll be listed in this and be like, This guy is a dumbass, he knows nothing. And I will say, you're right. I don't know anything. I only speak from my my own navel gazing, you know?

Michael David Wilson 23:07

Right. Right. And so, I mean, if the tide existed, what would you do differently? Oh, man,

Carson Winter 23:17

you know, there, I think there's so many things, but also, you know, I think I ended up pretty happy where I am. I think one of the things I would do is I would have gone to college way early. I waited until my late 20s, which is a very boring life. A life answer to this is that I felt like I waited very long to start my life as an adult, I was definitely an Arrested Development as in my 20s just kind of, you know, go into punk shows getting wasted, you know, work in entry level jobs. And that was just kind of my life. And you know, I talked a lot of shit, I wish I had kind of found a path for forward earlier, that was a little bit more concrete than just kind of, like waiting for something to happen. Like, I don't really looking back, I feel like I wasted so much time. If you know, I was really had some kind of title reality or something I would have potentially tried to change the course of my life and been more active earlier, or, you know, spent a lot of money and gotten to a casino and just gotten more drunk and more wasted, or skipped out on work. That's probably the honest answer. either. I would have skipped out on work for a day or something.

Michael David Wilson 24:38

Right? Right. And it occurs to me too, that there may be people listening who haven't fully defined what is the title reality so I should have probably started with that. But if you if you would give us a sense. I mean, maybe I did in a previous title reality Dee's getting bored of repeating it. But I mean, the

Carson Winter 25:05

kind of. So like the weird conceit of soft targets, I believe every weird story has kind of like a singular aberration that people bounce off of that isn't explained? Because Have you explained it become a sci fi novel? So for mine, it is that some days are more real than others. And you can do what you want on those days without consequences. And kind of the slate is clean the next day.

Michael David Wilson 25:36

Yeah. Which is such like, a delicious and trippy concept in itself. I mean, yeah, you basically got a free pass. But as as we find out, is it really free? I mean, that that is the heart of Allah.

Carson Winter 25:57

Yeah, you know, it does make you think like it are there. Is there even such things as like, no consequences if you're like a human with, you know, a conscience? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I would say, you know, hopefully, there is no such thing as absolutely zero consequences. But you do still have to reconcile with the things you've done? Yeah. If they've hurt people.

Michael David Wilson 26:25

Yeah, yeah. I, I agree with your dad. And, you know, I mean, you can imagine situations, and I'm sure, we've actually been in situations where you could do something, you know, morally questionable, or let's go forever and say, morally reprehensible. And you know, that you could get away with it, that no one would find out. But I think, you know, it's having that moral conscience. That means like, well, you don't really get away with it for free, because you have to live with what you've done. And you know, that kind of guilt will eat up on you. And, actually, I mean, for me, personally, I feel in those situations, the thing that is then more cathartic is like, Yes, I have to confess, because it's actually worse to hold on to, you know, how haven't done that. And, I mean, you'll probably be both relieved to hear it's like, Wait, so if I've said, I will confess seeing as I'm not arrested, I haven't murdered anyone. So that's, that's good, at least. Yeah.

Carson Winter 27:40

Yeah, I think, you know, the title reality when I was kind of playing with it, that idea in the, in kind of the ideation of soft targets, is that it was really influenced just by the idea of like, getting into intrusive thoughts. I think we all to some degree, deal with some sort of Call of the Void some kind of intrusive thoughts. You know, I had always remember like, seeing when I worked at a grocery store, I just see like, big ol fucking pallets full of like soda just packed nice and tight. And I was just like, Oh, God, I'd love to just take a machine gun and just blow that pallet apart and see, like the foam and just explode and stuff. And of course, you know, I'm never gonna go buy a fucking machine gun, and shoot up a pallet of coke on a grocery floor. That is absurd. But, you know, if there was a title reality, you know, maybe that's a real answer to the previous question. Maybe I would go procure a weapon, and just wreak havoc on grocery store products. Who knows?

Michael David Wilson 28:44

Yeah, I mean, that's like an interesting idea, too, because it's like, if you had the title reality, you could do something that would kind of be fun, but also be insane, and would get you in trouble in like, a normal day, but there's no actual victim. It's like, oh, he just shot up a load or Coca Cola, then like, he went AWOL on the fucking watermelon, how it was really weird. And like, no one got you. I guess you got this kind of cathartic violence that we were talking about previously. So you got to experience that but without actually harming a living creature. You just be up a load of commercial sugar filled products. So you go and you get to see the reaction and your boss says, well, like what a scared kid just like gunning down coke. When they amused in some way Did Did everyone in in the office or the grocery store just did did they pick up a gun to what happened?

Carson Winter 29:57

There it was just like, well, this seems fucking awesome. Yeah, yeah, you know, on the, on the darker end to like, this is kind of explored in the book a little bit is that, you know, you could explored death in a safe way, which I think is like probably the most ever looming presence in our lives is living people that are conscious of our own demise, we will literally all die, every human on Earth, in the history of the world has died. And it's one of those things that you don't really know what it's like, until it happens. And I think for me, death is a source of great anxiety, which is kind of why I connect so much with the body's work. And that's kind of another reason the title reality appealed so much to me is like, you know, if I could just, if I could just kill myself for a day would would it be less scary looking down the rest of my life, you know, because I don't, I don't want to be dead. I like being alive. But I am so scared of death. And that was another thing that was going on in my life is that I had a couple of, in retrospect, minor medical issues, but they were the first medical issues I ever had. I was living my 20s is, uh, you know, I was I was a kid, I never went to a hospital, I didn't need insurance or anything. But then you have that kind of first big health scare, and you're like, Oh, holy shit, like, I am super aware of the mechanics of my body, you know, I had a look at heart thing. And I was like, constantly aware of my heartbeat and stuff. And it like, it terrified me to be like, there could be a part of my body that is just failing right now. And I could, I could die any second. And of course, I was not dying. I was I was just suffering health anxiety, and super ventricular tachycardia, where my heart beats fast. And it was easily dedicated. And it's not life threatening. But at the time, it was it was very traumatic. And I think when I was writing soft targets, that was something I was kind of dealing with, through the title reality is that fear of death, and kind of also that Call of the Void being like, Could I could I just die to get it over with, so I can live the rest of my life and not be afraid of it?

Michael David Wilson 32:22

Yeah, yeah. And I certainly relate to what you're saying about, you know, your first kind of medical incident. Because, like, particularly, I mean, I used to have really bad arthritis through some diet and lifestyle changes, I put that into remission. But I think because I managed to so dramatically reverse it, I almost felt a little bit invincible, or like, you know, we're like, I can solve anything with diet like, as long as I eat enough kg, or then nobody's gonna stop anything. Actually, then, around around the time that my daughter was born, like, I guess, like about six months or so into being a new parent, like as one, you know, my, my understand, like sleep and stress was, you know, an all time low and an all time high. And because of that, like, there were a number of incidents like a lot, like just related to anxiety and like, yeah, there was an incident where I, I passed out and then I realized, oh, shit, like that right enough Kayo to fix that one to use that. And then, like, I temporarily like, I just became paranoid because it's like, Well, shit, I it like, kind of threw everything into question. And then I became so hyper aware of like, yeah, my my heartbeat and other things and how I was feeling I had when I went to the doctor, he was like, Okay, we are gonna take you for a full blood panel, just so you can see that there is nothing wrong with you. You're in full health because like, I kind of temporarily became like a hypochondriac, where it's like, anything happens is like, Fuck, I'm gonna die. I've got cancer. I'm fucked. Like, that's not

Carson Winter 34:33

what happened to me. I went to like the ER, like seven times in a year. And it was like, every time it was absolutely nothing. I just was freaking myself out. And I had many drug tests I had or Yeah, I had many tests. I had many, you know, like random cardiac tests, and they're all like, just telling me the same thing like, Dude, you're good. You're good. Just you're fine. But of course, you know, it's never enough because you don't trust your body anymore. You've raised that fundamental trust.

Michael David Wilson 35:08

Yeah, well, that was actually a thing too, which really fueled it. So one of the doctors they took like, yeah, like a, like a scan of my heart is an ECG and EEG, maybe that's something completely different. Anyway, they monitored that the heart rate and the heartbeat, and they were like, fuck, yours is like pretty irregular. It's got this spike where it really shouldn't have it. And like, you know, that only really happens in like, 70 and 80 year olds, and I'm like, Holy fuck, what, what the hell have I done? But then like, when I saw it's over here? Yeah. So like, I, I stopped drinking coffee at that point, that was a particularly awful time. They were like, well, anything that good in any way elevate most things that could elevate the heartbeat, I've thought something that I wouldn't stop most things that would elevate the heartbeat. I stopped doing. And but then when I went to see another doctor, they were like, okay, so it is like a slightly unusual heart heart rate pattern. But it happens in two types of people, either. Yeah, like, people that are late 70s and 80s. Or it's kinda like, if you're really fit and like you have more like an athlete's heart. And it's like, Oh, my God, why didn't you tell me that they'd like? It's just because I'm like, in quite good physical condition. And you got me paranoid, will the second get a cup of coffee after this bullshit? That was, yeah, that was probably the worst kind of missing out key information that I've ever had from a doctor. Like, they were like, they shouldn't, they shouldn't have told you that they shouldn't have said that without like running more tests and analyzing it. So it's like, Yeah, it's true what they said, but like, we're also taking other things, you know, that the whole portfolio into context? And it's like, so you don't have to worry about that with your particular heart rate. So yeah. Fucking traumatic man.

Carson Winter 37:35

Yeah, it absolutely is. I totally relate.

Michael David Wilson 37:39

You know, I know that I had another question related to that, but like, just like real relived material. I'm completely frightened myself. So

Carson Winter 37:52

sometimes you just got to let it out. Like, I get it, man. This is the place where it is the place for it.

Michael David Wilson 38:02

Yeah, yeah,

Bob Pastorella 38:04

I was gonna say me with with the title reality that you've taken something that's kind of like a really, really deep and hard to like, I couldn't write it out in a paragraph what it means you made this thing very accessible. And one of the things that I like about that is you actually take something that's weird. And you push it from the realm of psychological into a societal type thing. And that were becomes weird. That's where it becomes weird, because other people are affected by it, is without anyone else being affected by it, then suddenly, all you have is basically you've got Patrick Bateman going, but I did kill him. I did you know, at the ICO, because it's all here, but you've taken something that's here and made it accessible. In a way, it's almost like I don't know if you've ever read the raw shark text. Which is a very, you know, very well written, accessible thing that deals with basically memory and things like that in chunks of memory being eaten by a literal memory shark. But it's written in such a way that it's accessible. I guess you could say it's full of horror magic realism. But I what you've done is in it, you make it so easy. It's so fucking easy. It's like it was when I started off talking about this. I'm telling you I cannot write this thing down in a paragraph and go that's what it's about and be like, What the fuck are you talking about? Like there's other there's Okay, wait, so reality there's some days that are not realer. What do you mean real or explain? How do you go from real to not real Mike? Well, they're kind of unreal. So It's Supernatural. No, no, no. You've made it This thing so accessible? And it's like, no, no, it's like, how did you do it? I mean, it's like you, you might not even be able to explain it.

Carson Winter 40:10

I couldn't say this, because you touched on, you touched on one thing that I think definitely did go into this. Because I do love American Psycho. But I am like, very rigid in my belief that it was not all in his head. And one of my, like, classic pet peeves is like, you know, I'll watch like our reaction on YouTube or something in the movie. And they'll always in and be like, Ah, he was split personality the whole time. I fucking hate that more than anything. I hate split personality endings, probably like with my entire being, I did not want anyone to read my book and be like, Oh, they're at a split personality whole time or something. And, you know, this is why all this fucking shit was going on. So I think I really needed to expand it beyond the scope of just the main characters just so it sit right with me. And I felt like that it was that way, you know, with like, the newscaster and stuff. And you know, the other elements they're seeing outside of their own world affected by this title reality, where it signals to the reader my intent a little bit better than So, you know, I give I give them enough that they can, they can, they can see what I'm trying to give?

Bob Pastorella 41:27

Well, I mean, I was gonna agree, it's just, you know, to me the accessibility on thinking, taking a very broad, what could have been a very vast subject. The part of it is like, you relate it to people and how they experience it. And that's one of the things that I love. It's like, you really didn't need to explain it. Then they're guaranteed, there's somebody who's going to read this book, or well, how does it work? You know, I mean, like, Okay, I mean, explain, you know, this, you know, explain, explain, to fund whole and decipher. I mean, you know, Kathy, favorite book, I love that book. Thank you, thanks, things fucking happen. And to me,

Carson Winter 42:11

that is the basis of weird fiction is that there's got to be some kind of distortion, and you cannot explain it, you do not explain it. Because if you explain it, it's not weird fiction anymore. It's like, you know, fucking the metamorphosis Kafka, where the dude turns into a bug, nobody gives a shit or shouldn't give a shit, why the tube turns into a bug? No, there's no fucking chapter on, you know, the DNA toting that turned into a bug. What's what's important, and what's funny about the book is, you know, his boss, like pounding on his door being like, why didn't you come to work today? And it's hilarious, because he's a bug. That's why he didn't come, but you know, the societal expectations are still there. I feel like, to me, my understanding and definition of weird fiction is that, you know, it has to not be it has to not be explained, it has to be something characters react to bounce off to, and, you know, react to, but you know, my characters, they're, they're normal people, they're not fucking quantum physicists or something, they're not gonna be able to figure it out. They're just going to talk it through as best they can use normal, human 20 Something dude language to try to figure this out. And I feel like that makes it more relatable and sells it more to the audience, because they're asking the same questions you would, you know, like, how does this work? And I'm pretty sure you know, the even answers in the book are like, Oh, fuck, no, like, I work in an office dude. Like, I don't know anything about this. I figured it out. It's happening, but I don't know. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 43:51

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right, in that respect, that it does make it more realistic. Like if we stumbled upon it, that couldn't in reality, be the situation where I sit you both down and explain exactly what is going on. It's like, it's just happening. It's just happened. It's

Carson Winter 44:11

a tough conversation, you know? Yeah. How would you sell your friend on that? That was a that was that was like, if there was a tough scene to write in soft targets that was actually probably the hardest scene is the you know, the introduction of that and trying to sell it to the audience and the character in making it making it feel not just like, you know, a call like a a grandmaster tin, you know, kind of twist in the story like in the manner to where everybody's like, Oh, it's a fucking ancient shaman possessing it. Fuck yeah, okay, let's go with it. You know? Yeah. Which I also love that book just because the balls for you know how he Right set where everybody just like doesn't question it for more than like a sentence. They're just like, immediately like, Alright, I guess that's our only option. Let's just keep going with this. Let's get this fucker done and under, you know, 250 pages and move forward.

Michael David Wilson 45:13

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, yeah, I guess obviously like reading soft targets for the first time and not knowing you know where it's gonna go. Like, and I don't think this is a spoiler because let's face it, what we've spoken about already would have already spoiled this. But that was, I was wondering like, well, what if you know what he's been told about? The title reality? What if it turns out that Ollie is wrong? You know, it takes quite a leap of faith to go along with what your friends do. And like, if Bob said to me, like, I found the title reality, like it doesn't count. We're just gonna go and we're gonna, we're gonna have some people. I mean, I wouldn't go along harming people anyway, but imagining that I would, it's like, well, if you got this rung than never going to be severe consequences. So it's,

Carson Winter 46:17

I guess, got to be a persuasive motherfucker in that case.

Michael David Wilson 46:20

I mean, he is he was a car salesman as well. So you probably know what to say. But yeah, you got to a game where that sales pitch gets through. I mean, it helps the in this

Bob Pastorella 46:38

demonstration. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Michael David Wilson 46:41

it helps the story, you've got two characters that kind of have less to lose. You know, if it was people who, you know, at the height of their life right now, it's like, well, I'm probably not going to risk that isn't laughing. Yeah.

Carson Winter 47:06

Yeah, if you're a home owner, you're not fucking with any of this shit. Like, you're fine.

Michael David Wilson 47:13

Yeah, yeah. Do you ever kind of consider and think about what if this reality note we're living in now is is not as it seems, you know? What, what if? What if we are just a bit of matter being stimulated in a jar as the old kind of philosophical idea goes? What if I mean I,

Carson Winter 47:41

every day? Yeah, I think you know, it, as soon as you start questioning the nature of reality, it's hard to stop. And I also think, and you know, it's also one of those traps, you can fall into where, you know, you become a little less human, and may so skeptical, you start you stopped being empathetic to other people, but yeah, I feel like I'm always thinking about like, the nature of reality. And seven, I have another story to the mushroom men that was in that story. And that also, was another alternate reality story. So I've really been hung up on this idea, I think for a while that, you know, what, what makes our reality is it are is that our minds, our memories, our emotions, like, is this reality? Real? If you know, someone drills ahead in my brain and my chemical, my brain chemicals change, and I start perceiving things differently? If I don't remember any of my past, am I still the same person is does the past even exist anymore? To me? I mean, functionally, it wouldn't. So I mean, it's, it's fascinating, kind of that, that intersection between, you know, brain chemistry being human, and you know, the actual reality of time and what is actually objective about reality. And, you know, is anything objective because we're all little machines with a little chemicals in our body that make us feel different ways. We're essentially all a bunch of different little warp lenses, looking at what we can and hopefully agreeing on what we see, but we don't always agree. And I think that kind of realization was also kind of an aspect of my interest in obsession with like the nature of reality.

Michael David Wilson 49:47

What you've said it's just conjured up so many thoughts and ideas, and I mean, yeah, I think we're told that like a lot of the way that I kind of body works is like on a cellular level, and that there's gonna be some scientists that are like, this is fucking bullshit. Is this done into the stoner podcast? That like, we're kind of reproduced to a point that like after every seven years, we're kind of a different person. Now I know that I've massively simplified that. But then that kind of link to, you know, you talk about like, well, well, what if what if you do something horrendous, but then your brain damage to a point where you, you have no memory and you are now a fundamentally different person? How much should you be held accountable for what you did? Because it's like the person who did that is now that then not you anymore, you are a different person. And I guess this is why the kind of criminal justice system and debates kind of frequently have when it's to do with like, dismiss diminished capacity and responsibility. But you know, and it's difficult to because when something bad happens, we want someone to pay, we want there to be a consequence, but sometimes something bad happens. And there isn't anyone to pay or the person who did it is gone. Or they've transformed into something wholly different. And I don't even know there's probably not a question attached to this is just something you know, that, that I've ponder, and it's just a kind of terrifying thing. And also just thinking about like, how, how much should we be held accountable for past actions and past mistakes and adding like a lot of things, there's like a scale. I think. intentionality is hugely important to It's the fucking complex.

Carson Winter 52:12

Yeah, it's like, are you you? Are you the collective perception of you for the rest of society? And so it is really interesting. This is actually you know, exactly the kind of conversations I hope soft targets stop, you know, starts among stoners in their dorm rooms. 50 years.

Michael David Wilson 52:30

Yeah. You know, I didn't do it, it did make a fantastic film as well. So I mean, I wonder like, Are you actively looking? Like chopping the rights around? And also, I mean, as somebody who you said, Before, I believe that you were initially interested in filmmaking and script writing before you started writing books? Are you tempted to just write the script for this? And to see if you can, you can sell that? Are there any film plans for soft targets?

Carson Winter 53:10

Well, I will say I was approached by a screenwriter, nothing set in stone. It's one of those things, you know, film rights in Hollywood, it's a it's so nebulous. So it's hard to say that anything's in the works or not. But there is someone interested. And I've seen a first scene of the script, and I've really, really liked it. For me, at this point, though, I don't have any personal aspirations of like, making a movie, I feel like, you know, I've really found myself I see myself as an author. Now, I don't, I don't need to be a director or a screenwriter. And I, I kind of I don't want to be the type of author that's just here, because he couldn't do movies. And I feel like there's a lot of younger writers, it's like, you know, this is the next best thing because it's easy. And while that is kind of part of my story, you know, I have a have a legitimate love of the form of prose of books. So I am, I am happy being an author, and I am totally happy having someone else deal with that entire world. I would love for soft targets to be a movie. And if anybody's out there who wants to offer me just fuck loads of cash, please do. I'll be here patiently waiting for the call and the check. But, you know, there there are some there are some murmurs but as anyone who knows that has had these murmurs happen with them, that you know, they they started Fastest they stop. So you can't necessarily put money on them or anything. It's just it's it's a it's a nice thought and I hope it pans out. But there's nothing official yet.

Michael David Wilson 55:11

Yeah, yeah. Well, I know that there are a number of filmmakers and producers that listen to this as Hara. So I think if you're listening and you're on the edge about, you know, approaching Carson then you're absolutely here because this feels like it would be so. Right for film and I ain't gotta be quite an easy one to adapt. And if you're like, Oh, well, your rights are still available. Nothing's

Carson Winter 55:39

fine, guys. They're right here.

Michael David Wilson 55:43

Yeah, right. Yeah, you just go out.

Bob Pastorella 55:48

I think that vixen mortgage should do it. I mean, that's just

Michael David Wilson 55:54

specific.

Bob Pastorella 55:56

I mean, going

Michael David Wilson 55:59

back anyone, he will accept money from anyone it doesn't have to just take your mind.

Bob Pastorella 56:07

But reading it, I actually had that those two guys in my head, you know, and I guess I love their movies. They're great. Yeah, I just think something dark but I was like, you know, this is something that they would they would definitely be interested in. It's their kind of weird, you know, so it's, uh, you know, that's she that'd be cool but that mean there's there's there's a ton a ton of filmmakers that could probably do it justice as just as well.

Carson Winter 56:40

Oh, yeah. I'm sure Benson Moorhead if you're listening, you know, send me your pitch. I'm ready

Michael David Wilson 56:47

to go. Well, we got a question from Lord Modi via Patreon he says, Tell us how you met P L Macmillan. And how it came about that you created a podcast together

Carson Winter 57:06

okay, so I met PL McMillan in the the howls writing group. Well, book groups Discord server everything. They do a lot of stuff there I met PL McMillan from there. PL and I, you know, we actually didn't really like each other at first. We were almost almost enemies, I would say. As far as anyone can be enemies in the indie writing world. But we eventually became friends. And I we were in a book together I believe. Yes. So we were in a book together. The odd that's what I call horror 90s anthology that had my story alive and living in it. And we i She hosted a 90s live event on Zoom, where we had a lot of people come in for the release party. And I because my story was written in screenplay format, and I could not really read it very well in a reading situation. It would have been very strange for a single author to read like a multi character screenplay out loud. I ended up CO hosting it with her and we had a really good rapport we had a lot of fun. And I ended up also kind of butting in and CO hosting an interview with her with Patrick BB another writer. I really really like right now. Yeah, if anyone's listening that is you haven't read read his story haunting lessons. It is the single best piece of flash flash fiction I've read. It is amazing, haunting lessons. So affecting. I love it. But we interviewed Patrick Barb together. And again, we were like, wow, you know, this is this is pretty fun. We get along really well. We like each other. And then you know, we're like, let's do a podcast. Let's do a podcast about indie horror writing from indie horror writers perspective, we just talk about whatever you want, we can bullshit. make jokes. And you know, that's just where it sprang from. And we just, we just did it. And it has been a blast so far.

Michael David Wilson 59:15

Well, I need to follow up. Why didn't you like each other to begin with? And what do you think was the moment where that change?

Carson Winter 59:25

Okay, so what happened was that there's a couple things. I was coming into this group as like a total outsider, and everybody else was very, like well established with each other, which is kind of like the story of my life where I come into a new place and everybody else knows each other, and I'm the outsider. And she had like this reputation of being a really harsh critiquer and had had been given the nickname salt queen. And for some reason that just like made me it kind of made me angry like they were insisting on branding, like I was about to buy into her brand. And in this group like this inside joke that I hadn't been a part of. So I wasn't like, really formally mad at her. But it was kind of like one of those things like, I don't want to I don't want to feed into this branding inside joke thing that I wasn't part of. The other thing was, she was an editor for an anthology that I ended up. I got accepted to but I stepped out of because of edits that I didn't really feel like, meshed with my style. And we it was a it was a respectful transaction stuff, but I think we were both kind of, she was like, oh, man, that Carson guy is like a pretentious prima donna. He didn't like my edits. And I was like, well, that PL is, you know, trying to shape my art in a way that I don't appreciate. So we were kind of at distance for a little bit. But overall, it's very, it's very minor drama, and we're very good friends. We joke about it to this day.

Michael David Wilson 1:00:56

Yeah. So we're relieved to hear then that if the title reality exists, you won't become an actor. Yeah.

Carson Winter 1:01:05

No, no, never.

Michael David Wilson 1:01:09

She's great. Yeah. Yeah. Under

Carson Winter 1:01:12

novella sisters of the crimson vine. It's really good. I really enjoyed it that came out pretty recently, I think from spooky house press, I think yeah, she's she's a really great writer.

Michael David Wilson 1:01:23

Yeah. Well, how did you get involved with hells?

Carson Winter 1:01:29

Oh, man, you know, I think is probably that I was on. I think it was through the horror lit. subreddit on Reddit. And I probably saw a link and I joined up from there. And you know, I've kind of been, I wouldn't say I'm like a super active howls person. I kind of I kind of jump in and out. But yeah, I think I found it through Reddit. Totally. It was just kind of nice to find like a community of writers.

Michael David Wilson 1:01:59

Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's something that frightens you.

Carson Winter 1:02:07

Death. Yeah.

Michael David Wilson 1:02:10

I wondered, I wonder if we had mentioned it before. And I I actually, that does remind me when you mentioned you obviously mentioned being scared of death. You mentioned being an atheist. I'm wondering, why do you think you're so scared to death? What do you think it is?

Carson Winter 1:02:36

Well, you know, I think with living we become addicted to being alive. We we really like it. And you know, I think some atheists they really take a lot of comfort in that. Oh, well, being dead is just like, you know, how it was before you were born. For me, I don't really find that comforting because before I was born, I wasn't alive. You know, I've been alive now. I know how good it is. I know you know, I can it it's almost like a in some ways it's almost like a Power Rush right? That you suddenly have thoughts feelings, ideas, you can affect the world around you in different ways. And having being confronted with that absence, that absolute void of everything, you know, that death is so absolute that you can't even really articulate it is is so frightening. To me. It's um, it's, you know, kind of a perverse, sublime, you know, feeling that I I think I still struggle with it, even though you know, I've been put on, you know, depression, anti anxiety meds and stuff that I think have really helped. And I didn't realize how much they helped until I like, tried to stop them. And suddenly, I was thinking about dying like, 24/7 I was like, Oh, holy shit, I should probably just keep taking these pills. But yeah, it's, it's just once you're alive. I think it's, it's hard to it's hard to deal with the absence of that, because it is really all you know, it's hard to imagine not being alive.

Michael David Wilson 1:04:16

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think about death a lot too. And I honestly don't know what I believe anymore. You know, I was brought up in a religious household then. I guess I became agnostic and then I became a fears now, honestly, confused motherfucker is odd. I am. So I guess. Probably just put me in the atheist agnostic camp is like, I don't know, but I do know that I enjoy being alive much like yourself. And so and I am I am terrified of death. And I try and think well, why? Why am I terrified to death? Particularly if I think when you're dead? That's it, then you know, nothing happens. I think I think too, like I'm, I'm scared of not fulfilling, you know, my potential, or having procrastinated too much. And so there's things that I want to achieve and I want to do, but it's like, no, no, don't don't cut me out prematurely. I thought I had more time. But none none of us know, how much time we have. So in a way that can be a motivator to just get shit done. Now, it's like you don't know when you're going to tap out of life. So you better make sure you bring in your A game now. Yeah, I mean, that's,

Carson Winter 1:05:53

you know, connected to being alive. You know? Yeah, that's, that's what I think about a lot. And I think about also like, you know, legati in the conspiracy against the human race and kind of how, like, being alive, you're, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place a little bit is like, you know, a lot of philosophical pessimists, you know, they're confronted with the idea of like, well, if you hate being alive so much, you know, why don't you just kill yourself? And it's like, well, if only it were that easy, you know, I, I, my entire body revolts against the idea I was put on this earth against my will, and my whole body won't let me die. It's very scared of it. So you know, I'm just, I'm stuck here being scared until I pass naturally, in which I will be very, very, very scared at the end, which is a horrifying thought.

Michael David Wilson 1:06:47

Yeah. Yeah. What is it that you're working on at the moment? And what do you have coming up after soft targets?

Carson Winter 1:07:01

So I've got a my next big book release is going to be in October. It's a co written, shared collection mosaic novel. It's kind of a very strange book called post haste manner, that I wrote with Jolie, Touma. John, who is a fantastic writer in her own right, one of my favorite sentence level writers ever. And it's also with tenebrous press. It's a it's like a collection of short stories and a novella that follows the rise and fall of a very, very weird haunted house and we kind of we traded off writing short stories, they all kind of interconnect. It's very, very, very weird, and we're very proud of it. I'm very stoked for people to read it. It's going to be just bonkers weird. After that. tenebrous has another project from me. I don't know if I can actually talk about it because I don't think it's been formally announced. But it is a similar to soft targets. It is a anti capitalist. diatribe dressed up in horror fiction, but this one's a little bit more folk quarry. And there's more about kind of getting out of under the thumb of other people, and also involves killer scarecrows. Right now I've got a novel that I'm shopping around called the psychographic this that takes inspiration from my marketing background, my day job. And I'm looking for a press for that right now. And currently, I am writing a legato Ian's sword and sorcery novella novel thing that's going to be I think, very, very fucking cool. I'm very excited about it, about a death worshipping Conan type hero called corpse. And it's, uh, it's going to be very weird, very strange, but kind of like a melding of like those classical heroics. And also, like, philosophical pessimism, and that like absurdist weird stuff that I love, and I'm I'm excited to finish writing that and chopping that around.

Bob Pastorella 1:09:30

You got me a scarecrows, man. Got me, it scarecrows. There's so such an iconic figure and outside of outside of superheroes or supervillains it's such an iconic thing and you don't see much done with it. And it's, yeah, you got me. Got my credit card ready? So that's kind of how

Carson Winter 1:09:57

I felt to what I was. You know? I was thinking it up writing it was that it was like, I kind of consider it like the Scarecrow as a as a Halloween store monster where you don't really see it like in a lot of movies or books or anything. But it is still kind of like this in a way kind of like a lesser pop culture icon of horror, where you're aware of them, but they don't have that presence. It's like I need to write like a scare a proper scarecrow horror thing. And it's just in mine. My my scarecrows are collectivists who are well, I probably shouldn't give too much away. But I'm excited for people to check it out. It'll be out in 2024.

Bob Pastorella 1:10:45

All right.

Michael David Wilson 1:10:47

Yeah, looks like tenebrous press are really buying into the good old constant winter fiction has a lot of projects and had a story in their their weird anthology as well. Yeah.

Carson Winter 1:11:06

In Haskins Yeah, that was originally an apex and they put it in Brave New weird. That's a in that one's also it's free online at Apex, if anyone wants to read, I think that's one of my best shorts for sure. And it's a it's one of my personal favorites. So if anybody out there wants a free taste of my work, check out in Haskin xypex.

Michael David Wilson 1:11:27

Yeah, yeah. Now, I can't remember if this happened during our conversation, or if I read up on it previously, or if I have just imagined this, because we've been talking for so long now. But did you say that tenebrous initially rejected soft targets? Or have I just imagined that?

Carson Winter 1:11:54

No, that's, that's absolutely 100%. Correct. They rejected it. Yeah, I sent it in. And they, they kept it for a long time, they gave me a very, very nice, no, and encouraged me to reach out to talk about it more with them, which I did. And I talked to Alex wood row, the editor in chief there, and she gave a lot of great reasons why they didn't feel like they could support it. But they were also said that, like, it was easily one of their favorites, which, you know, was very encouraging to me, because I felt like, you know, at the time, I have this very strange book about a very difficult topic. And I was like, Well, this is just never gonna get fucking published. I was just thinking, eventually, I'm just gonna have to put her on Kindle or something. It'll, it'll live or die there. And so I talked to her about it. Eventually, you know, I kept I kept submitting it, but nobody really bought that into it, which is fine. And then I, they opened again, and I sent them my other book. And they got back to me. And they're like, so soft targets still available. And they ended up offering me making offers on all three of the projects that I kind of had going, which was one of those big wins, I don't think I'm ever going to talk like that was a really exciting week for me that you know, that they believed in me so much that they, because they they told me like, yeah, we we weren't in the place to put out soft targets. We didn't think we could rely on our network in a way because it's such a difficult topic for a lot of people, you know? And they said, but they also said, like, we couldn't stop thinking about it, which was also awesome for me. Yeah. So you know, they said, Let's do it. But let's put the content mornings, you know, front and center, make sure people know what they're getting into, which I had no problem with at all. I definitely don't want to traumatize or re traumatize anyone. And with that mind, the way they marketed the book was actually brilliant. I don't think we've really had any big issues with the content at all seems like the people who are going into it have the right expectations. They know what they're getting into. They know what to expect. And they've been able to, you know, enjoy the book on its own terms, which I've really appreciated. So it was a it was a stroke of genius, making sure to put those content warnings front and center.

Michael David Wilson 1:14:37

All right, well, that's so awesome. And so good that yay. They rejected it reluctantly, but just couldn't stop thinking about it. Linda, like we need it. You still got this available? So yeah, it's great. And it's so so very well deserved. So I'm glad that they took But I'm glad that I've had the opportunity to read it. And yeah, I hope that is very successful for you.

Carson Winter 1:15:09

Yeah, thank you, you know, I couldn't imagine it, go into a better press. They're great people, they put so much like obvious care into their products from, you know, selecting our to, you know, the marketing, just how active they are, in giving this book, the best release, it can, it's, it's really, it's inspiring and comforting and, you know, gives me all the good, warm fuzzies knowing that Matt and Alex are in my corner, and they're fighting tooth and claw, for me, because, you know, it's, you know, it's kind of the sad truth. Not all indie publishers are able to put that energy forward. I know, me and my writer friends, we've seen many anthologies that, you know, everyone submits to, but yeah, you go and look them up. And, you know, there's, there's one, there's one review on it or something. No, nobody ever reads them. So it's great having tenebrous here, really pushing the book, believing in it so much, and working hard to find the readers that are going to connect to it.

Michael David Wilson 1:16:18

Absolutely. Well, where can our listeners connect with you?

Carson Winter 1:16:24

Um, I have a website, Carson winter.com. You can also find me on Twitter at Carson winter three. I'm on Instagram at winter Carson. And you can always email me at carson.winter@gmail.com And also, I'm on the dead languages podcast.

Michael David Wilson 1:16:43

All right. Do you have any final thoughts for our listeners? Oh, man.

Carson Winter 1:16:49

You know what? Check out soft targets but more importantly, be kind to each other. You know, deal with your bullshit and responsible ways. Aim strive towards self awareness. How about that I think that's the best advice I can give strive towards self awareness.

Michael David Wilson 1:17:14

Thank you for listening to This Is Horror Podcast with Carson winter. Join us again next time when we will be presenting a nother This Is Horror awards episode. And in that one we are going to hear from the winners of the publisher and fiction magazine of the year. Now if you want that episode, and every other episode of This Is Horror ahead of the crowd, then do become a patron or pay patreon.com forward slash This Is Horror. Not only do you get early bird access to each and every episode, but you get to submit questions to each guests that we have on the show. And coming up soon we will be chatting with Suzanne young Caroline, Katniss and Josh Malerman amongst many other people. So go to patreon.com forward slash This Is Horror. Have a little look at what we offer and see if it's a good fit for you. Okay, before I wrap up, let us have a quick adverb break.

Bob Pastorella 1:18:23

impoverished college dropout Nick is desperate for money. So he signs up for highly experimental study at the isolated Drug Corp compound. Nick knows the study involves improving the human genome to extend life and he knows it involves some minor abdominal surgery, but he isn't prepared for the strange After Effects, the nausea, the itching, the unusual abdominal swelling, the internal squirming now available in paperback from mother horror and cemetery gates media. Book number six and a my dark library line corporate body by our A Busbee. Aurthur Carson winter presents soft targets and develop new word horror out March 22. From tenebrous press, a pair of Office drones to discover a loophole and time that makes some days less real than others, allowing them to act on their darkest impulses without fear of reprisal. Their morals become more slippery and their fantasies more violent. And soon they will have to decide what line they won't cross soft targets in a timely reality bending novella about the easy surrender to violence in the addictive appeal of tragedy is entertainment. More information at tenebrous press.com.

Michael David Wilson 1:19:26

Now, as always, I would like to end with a quote. And in the latest, This Is Horror newsletter which of course you can get at this is horror.co.uk. I spoke a little bit about Steven Pressfield, The War of Art and his concept he has of the resistance. Now I know that it's resonated with a number of you. So I wanted to share this little extract where Steven is talking about the resistance. So here we go. Are you paralyzed with Fear, that is a good sign. Fear is good. Like self doubt Fear is an indicator. Fear tells us what we have to do. The more scared we are of a work or cooling, the more sure we can be that we have to do it. Resistance is experienced as fear. The degree of fear equates to the strength of resistance. Therefore the more fear we feel about a specific enterprise, the more certain we can be, that that enterprise is important to us and to the growth of our soul. That is why we feel so much resistance. If it meant nothing to us, there would be no resistance. I'll see you in the next episode for the This Is Horror awards with the fiction magazine and the publisher of the year. But until then, take care yourselves. Be good to one another. Read horror. Keep on writing and have a great, great day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai